Ep.10/ Beyond Black Maternal Health with Roslyn Smith

Twin Pregnancies, Doctor Experiences and Mental Health with Deja Harford

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• Episode Transcript

  Note: This transcription has been created with a help of an AI thus errors and mistranscriptions may be present.

  [00:00:00] RJ Smith: Hello, maternal Health 9 1 1. What's your emergency?

  [00:00:08] RJ Smith: 1, 2,

  [00:00:09] Dr. Jill Baker: 3, 4.

  [00:00:14] Dr. Jill Baker: Hi, I'm Dr. Joe Baker. I'm a wife, a mother of community health scholar and executive director and a fertility coach. More than 12 years ago, I was on my own infertility journey. Since then, I've made it my personal mission to help anyone who is on their own journey to become a parent, as well as shed light on infertility and maternal health experiences of bipo women and couples.

  [00:00:42] Dr. Jill Baker: Now let's begin this week's episode of Maternal Health 9 1 1.

  [00:00:53] Dr. Jill Baker: Hello, maternal Health 9 1 1 Family. Dr. Jill Baker here with another very exciting episode of my new show. So, Dear listeners, I have a very, very special guest. I know I say every guest is a very, very special guest, but this sister is a very, very special guest of mine and you'll know why. Very quickly.

  [00:01:19] Dr. Jill Baker: So I have on the show today, Ms. Rosalyn, j Smith, and Rosalyn somehow, and she, well, she can verify if this is right or not. I think she found me on social. I think she found me. I think on social media, she's shaking her head. So we're, I'm, I'm right Cause I get a lot of things wrong nowadays with being 44.

  [00:01:40] Dr. Jill Baker: But I think she found me, I don't know if it was Instagram or Facebook. I don't know. I don't know. She can tell you which one. And, you know, sometimes I have like my love hate with social media, although my work is kind of forcing me to be out there more on social media. But I have to tell you, with her finding me and reaching out to me this was one of the things that I was like, okay, this is the benefit of social media with having people reach out to you who are really seeking, you know, your support and, and believe that you can help them.

  [00:02:17] Dr. Jill Baker: So, Rosalyn reached out to me. I got back to her real quickly. I was like, Hey, let's, let's talk. And we talked on Zoom and it was like a 90 minute talk the first time we talked. And then one of the she things she told me was that she was actually l lives in the Bronx. I was like, stop playing. No, you don't.

  [00:02:41] Dr. Jill Baker: And she was like, no, yes I do. And then I was like, well, tell me where this place is and tell me, okay, so nope, she is in the Bronx. I was like, wow. So I was like, okay. We're definitely, you know, kindred spirits, but I'm really glad that, you know, she found me and we were able to kind of talk together about something that, you know, happened to her.

  [00:03:05] Dr. Jill Baker: And I hope that I was able to give her some support at, at that time when we had that first 90 minute Zoom conversation. And she's going through something very, you know, definitely tragic, very challenging, very difficult. All of those are understatements. However, she has, she made the decision and she is going to talk about this in her own words, to use her experience to help the world and to help protect other.

  [00:03:40] Dr. Jill Baker: Women of color, you know, just like us, just like me, just like her, just like you, who are really constantly faced with micro and microaggressions. Anytime we, and yes, I'll say it, when we go to a potential healthcare visit, like we have to be on guard. So without further ado, my guest today is Rosalyn j Smith, who is a digital client expert, and she's also a woman's empowerment advocate and she's a content creator.

  [00:04:16] Dr. Jill Baker: Rosalyn is a New York City based financial services executive who has specialized in digital client experience at Fortune 500 companies. She's a digital pro product owner by training that has excelled at turning retail banking consumer feedback into actionable insights, leading digital transformation through agile methodology and delivering executive level communication to a global business audience.

  [00:04:44] Dr. Jill Baker: Her current focus is on delivering technical functionality on asset management software for institutional investment banking clients. Rosalyn has championed diversity, equity, and inclusion throughout her career. And is also responsible for implementing leadership development workshops to support women and underrepresented people in the refinement of their self-promotion skills.

  [00:05:11] Dr. Jill Baker: Through partnership with Google's I Am Remarkable initiative, prior to entering the banking industry, she worked on several successful municipal, county, state and federal election campaigns. As executive director of the Essex County Democratic Committee, when outside of the office, she enjoys travel and blending essential oils.

  [00:05:34] Dr. Jill Baker: Okay, I don't think you told me that. Okay. She is always on the hunt for Interesting podcast and nursing, a dependency on Audible. She serves on the Board of Dress for Success, Northern New Jersey, an organization dedicated to economic empowerment of women by providing the development tools to thrive and work and life.

  [00:05:54] Dr. Jill Baker: Rosalyn is a Rutgers Newark University graduate with a bachelor's degree in economics, and she studied applied business analytics at none other than Massachusetts Institute of Technology or m i t, as well as digital marketing, marketing at Columbia University. So without further ado, maternal health 9 1 1.

  [00:06:18] Dr. Jill Baker: Audience, let's welcome Rosalyn j Smith to the show. Hey,

  [00:06:23] RJ Smith: Rosalyn. Hello there. Thank you so much for that warm intro and for having me on your platform today. I can say that first meeting that's, it was ni It was long. It was long. You remember? It was long. I think you were outside. Was outside

  [00:06:41] Dr. Jill Baker: Cause it was nice outside.

  [00:06:43] Dr. Jill Baker: It was warm. You were,

  [00:06:45] RJ Smith: I was in my living room. I think we were on Zoom or something and we just hit it off immediately. And you've been one of my biggest supporters throughout this journey because it's, it's been a perilous road and I know we'll get into it later, but I just wanna say I'm so happy that people like you exist and that this platform exists so that women like us have a voice.

  [00:07:10] RJ Smith: Yes, sister,

  [00:07:11] Dr. Jill Baker: thank you so much for that. That means a lot to me. And I'm glad that you fou. I'm glad you somehow found, I'm glad you found me. So that's, thank, so social media, you know, is a good thing sometimes for these ex exact, you know, kind of, kind of reasons. And we, you know, we have to keep talking about very difficult experiences because these are happening all the time, especially for women of color.

  [00:07:40] Dr. Jill Baker: And as you know, and as you and I have talked about, these experiences are still not getting enough attention, period. Correct. And so that's why we have to be the ones to share them with the world. So my first question for you, so this is something different for me. So I have a question that I ask all the guests.

  [00:08:04] Dr. Jill Baker: So it's like the first question for the show. So my question for you, Rosalyn, is, and with all of your experiences and all of your knowledge and all of your hats, why do you think maternal health is an emergency in this country?

  [00:08:22] RJ Smith: I think it's an emergency because there is a general disregard for women within medical institutions.

  [00:08:34] RJ Smith: And that disregard is exasperated. Or exa or just made more of a poignant experience for women of color. So I just, I believe it's just the fact that women are not considered important. And I think that it's interesting. I had the experience that I did at an annual well woman exam prior to Roe v.

  [00:09:02] RJ Smith: Wade being overturned. So it just seems like this year has been a pivotal year in women's history and in this country, and absolutely, maybe it's not a coincidence that I had the experience that I did, and I'm happy to share more about that experience whenever whenever I should on, on today's program.

  [00:09:22] RJ Smith: Can you

  [00:09:24] Dr. Jill Baker: just kind of set up for the audience with just kind of walking through your process of, you know, what this appointment was supposed to be and your relationship with the, the healthcare provider, you know, prior to the visit that, you know, we're gonna go into more detail about

  [00:09:48] RJ Smith: Sure thing. So for starters, everyone, I, I had an annual, well ex annual well woman exam on January 4th, 2022.

  [00:10:01] RJ Smith: And I was really looking forward to this exam actually because COVID and all the social distancing and protocols had prevented me from seeking out medical attention just in general. So I was in this frantic rush to catch up on all my appointments. Mm-hmm. You know, and it was by chance that right before the pandemic I had found a black woman of color as an OB G Y n that was highly referred to me by a friend of mine that went to Howard University.

  [00:10:38] RJ Smith: And while this friend she's a part of a lot of Howard circles, so this doctor was even really highly thought of in her circle of friends and had delivered mm-hmm. Children of women that I know in passing, but are not directly in my close circle. And so I think for me, And you feel excited, like, absolute thing.

  [00:11:05] RJ Smith: And I find a black woman doctor. Exactly. And every height. Yeah. Height, exactly. And everyone made it seem like she walked on water. And she's so hip and she's so cool. So I'm like, oh, well good. I'm, I'm great. That's what I need. That's what I need. And so, right when I had my first appointment with her, I realized, I said, wow, this is why everyone likes her.

  [00:11:26] RJ Smith: She's so cool. You know, she had a poster of notorious b i g in her office. Wow. Even the okay. Medical assistant was a Caribbean woman and was like, and we were just, you know, while I'm getting my blood pressure checked, we're just chit-chatting about food and the carnival or just anything that's going on Right.

  [00:11:49] RJ Smith: In New York that involves, you know, right. So it's like, so far, so good. So, so far, so good. She was asking me about my hair, so I'm like, oh, this is good. I can, like, I don't have to worry when I'm in this environment. And then of course, COVID came and just disrupted so many things about our lives.

  [00:12:07] RJ Smith: Actually, my brother passed in March of 2020. I'm so sorry. I actually had other relatives and people, like colleagues that had passed, people that had been a part of my career and, and my success that, you know, it, it was, it was crazy. I, I remember being told to stay home. In March. But before that, someone who had been at the company for 30 years, I, the last thing I went to was her retirement party and her grandchildren came and she said to me, Rosalyn, I'm so happy that I'm gonna just have time to spend with my grandchildren.

  [00:12:45] RJ Smith: And then two weeks later she was gone because of Covid. So it's, there was just a time of collective Yeah. Grief and heartbreak and just staying in the house. And that's like

  [00:12:54] Dr. Jill Baker: universal. Yes, exactly. With everyone, like, you know, somebody that passed away. Right.

  [00:13:00] RJ Smith: Not only period, not only that, in New York City we have this thing where at seven o'clock in the evening, it was either six or seven where mm-hmm.

  [00:13:09] RJ Smith: No matter where you were, you would stop and clap for medical providers and first responders. Oh, right. That's right. So I had built up this routine because everything was closed that I would go to Central Park around that time in the spring and summer and early fall. And when, when that time came to clap for all of our medical providers that were responding to Covid, like I made sure I stopped what I was doing, even if I was mid conversation.

  [00:13:38] RJ Smith: So yeah. So that was the backdrop. Yeah. Fast forward to 2022. Going to this appointment I had actually got in the cab. I was at work. I did the appointment for a one o'clock appointment because for me it was like the equivalent of going to lunch. Okay. So I was planning to do my work, go out for this lunch, you know, appointment, and then come back and work.

  [00:14:03] RJ Smith: And I had even texted the friend that referred me to her saying, Hey, I'm going to my second appointment with so-and-so. You know, this is so awesome. Thanks again for recommending her to me. Oh boy. Right. Cause you were high, you were hyped. I was

  [00:14:19] Dr. Jill Baker: hyped. So what was the time period between that first visit and now this

  [00:14:24] RJ Smith: one in January?

  [00:14:25] RJ Smith: So that first visit was fall of 2019.

  [00:14:31] Dr. Jill Baker: Oh, oh, okay. So that's a long time. Ok. That's a long time. Yeah. Right. And yeah.

  [00:14:36] RJ Smith: But that's a function of the pandemic and people Yes. Covid Right. In the house for two years.

  [00:14:43] Dr. Jill Baker: Right? Right. Yes. We all did. It was like, if you didn't need to go to that, that doctor appointment, that dentist appointment.

  [00:14:51] Dr. Jill Baker: Okay, well then that's gonna wait. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

  [00:14:55] RJ Smith: you're right. Exactly. So I was like, oh good, I'm finally catching up. Nothing was wrong with me, I'm just someone that Has always been proactive about my health. And as you and I thank you for reading my, my bio so enthusiastically, I've invested so much of my life as it should sister,

  [00:15:21] RJ Smith: reflect the fact that I've invested a lot of time into my education and career. Yes. So, culturally though, I think in my family, some women just don't get that because they were groomed to be wives and mothers very early in life. Yeah. And yeah.

  [00:15:41] Dr. Jill Baker: So it's like the generational Right. Differences. Yes.

  [00:15:45] RJ Smith: Yeah.

  [00:15:45] RJ Smith: Right. And so me being proactive about this is like, okay, even if I decide I want another degree, another certification, if I wanna consult or do something else, I need to make sure I'm staying on top of my fertility and what my options are now and how those options, you know, naturally just change over time.

  [00:16:04] RJ Smith: And I've, I've watched cousins of mine walk this road before me and some of them, you know, they waited a little too long.

  [00:16:13] Dr. Jill Baker: Okay. Cuz I was gonna ask you what has made, you know, what has made you so kind of focused on your knowledge of your, you know, your fertility and your fertility status, cuz that's not always typical.

  [00:16:28] Dr. Jill Baker: And then, That's when we, you know, wait too long mm-hmm. When we wanna have children and, you know. No, I think that's gr Great. So you, you had family

  [00:16:39] RJ Smith: members who Yes. I, oh, okay. I had successful female cousins that had double master's degrees, had led, you know, multinational organizations in, in corporate America that had walked this road maybe 10 or 15 years prior to me.

  [00:17:01] RJ Smith: And so because of their experiences one in particular who had adopted a foster child like a baby Wow. Gotten really close to that child. And then the mother popped up two years later. So it's, so I watched her go through the grief of not being able to conceive on her own and then bringing a child into her life by another means, and that child being taken away.

  [00:17:28] RJ Smith: Not to mention that it took her a long time goodness. To find a decent husband, or should I say a decent husband to find her. Right. Your partner. Partner.

  [00:17:37] Dr. Jill Baker: Right. That right, right. So I've watched her through, my gosh, that breaks my heart. That's

  [00:17:42] RJ Smith: heartbreaking. It is. And the other one has had at least four or five miscarriages.

  [00:17:48] RJ Smith: Oh, my heart is bleeding. Definitely. So I got to see that. 10 to 15 years in advance to say, okay, before I, you know, stay extra late and or try to get that next promotion. Let me make sure that I'm taking care of this part of myself because later I could regret not being more proactive. And did everybody

  [00:18:17] Dr. Jill Baker: hear that?

  [00:18:18] Dr. Jill Baker: That's like, that's a maternal health 9 1 1. You need to make that into a t-shirt or something. Take care of your fertility before you get that

  [00:18:29] RJ Smith: next promotion. Promotion. That next degree we, yeah, we should make it a shirt. Yeah, you could put that in the show notes.

  [00:18:39] Dr. Jill Baker: Yes. We'll put that in the show notes.

  [00:18:41] Dr. Jill Baker: That's gonna be I love it. That's gonna be one of our public service announcements. I love that. You're

  [00:18:47] RJ Smith: absolutely right. Right. And so I went into this appointment ready to, to tackle it. So I, I got there and I went through the usual things that you go through as a woman going to these appointments.

  [00:19:02] RJ Smith: I got the same medical assistant I had met, what, two and a half years prior? Wow. Yes. Yeah. Unless that doesn't always happen. But that's a thing. She was like, oh, you've been here before she even recognized me. Remembered you. She remembered me. And she was like, okay. And they do that thing where they're like, okay, you have to take everything off and you put on the.

  [00:19:24] RJ Smith: The gown, the cloth gown, the half gown and the li It's the half gown. Yeah. And the little bounty picker-upper, hopefully that's not a copyright or, yes, that's a good word for it. Yes. Yeah. Well, actually, I think the paper towel that I have in my kitchen is of higher quality than these things that they give you.

  [00:19:44] RJ Smith: Yes. In these appointments, they're, it's horrible. So you're, they're horrible. Yeah. So you're there. So I'm there, I'm sitting on the exam platform waiting for the doctor, and she enters the room very swiftly and heads straight for the computer and doesn't say anything to me. And so I was like I felt like I needed to break that awkward silence.

  [00:20:05] RJ Smith: And I said, Hey, how are you? And I said it like, in a very chipper way, and she hunched herself over the computer and said, well, everything's rainbows, ponies, and unicorns. And so immediately in my gut, I, I knew something was wrong, but me being the person that I am, I'm like, oh, well I'll just lighten the mood.

  [00:20:26] RJ Smith: So I said, well the last time I saw you, it was before the rapture, and we all got left behind. And she laughed and I laughed and I thought, okay, whatever attitude she came in with. Whatever. It's gone now.

  [00:20:42] Dr. Jill Baker: Maybe with me. Right. It'll be different. Yeah. Lemme give her, give her a minute. Exactly. I gave, right.

  [00:20:48] RJ Smith: Cause we're all human. We're all human and, right. But at now, in hindsight, I wish I had just taken that sign to me that I should leave. So, because I had made the joke about the rapture, she knew I was referring to Covid, and she's like, yeah, I knew from medical colleagues in Asia about Covid, but I never knew that it was gonna come to the us.

  [00:21:13] RJ Smith: You know, when I first saw it, it was like, oh, well that's too bad for them. And I said, yeah, I had a heads up on Covid too, because my sister was living in South Korea at the time as a teacher. And then she asked me, oh, is your sister black? And I said, well, we have the same parents. They're black, and so is she.

  [00:21:37] RJ Smith: And so I kind of gave one of those, like, why did you ask me that kind of responses? But I, I felt like I handled it in a manner that reflects the fact that I'm a professional woman. Like I Right. You know? Right, right, right. But she didn't catch the hint. She, she just didn't catch the hint. She

  [00:21:59] Dr. Jill Baker: didn't, okay.

  [00:22:00] Dr. Jill Baker: So she, okay, so she's not, she asked you that question. That's a okay. Odd question.

  [00:22:05] RJ Smith: Very odd question.

  [00:22:07] Dr. Jill Baker: Okay. So then what happened then right after that? And kind of where are you Yep. In the room at

  [00:22:15] RJ Smith: this point? So she had walked the, well, we, we started going through the questions that they ask you at the beginning.

  [00:22:22] Dr. Jill Baker: Okay. Yeah. Can you share the room? Yes.

  [00:22:24] RJ Smith: Whatever you're comfortable with sharing. Oh, sure, sure. I have no problem sharing, so, and whatever you're comfortable with sharing. No, that's okay. Cuz I know that that's a part of this journey and why I'm doing it. I wanna encourage other people to own and speak their truth.

  [00:22:36] RJ Smith: Right.

  [00:22:37] Dr. Jill Baker: So, but knowing that this can be a trigger. Right, exactly. And these experiences are triggering. They are for sure. And we for sure. Yeah. Just wanna take care

  [00:22:46] RJ Smith: of you. So she was going through the computer prompts and I think she was updating the computer and then she looked and she was like, she like, act shocked.

  [00:22:57] RJ Smith: Like, she jumped, like, she was shocked. She's like, you're not on birth control. Why aren't you taking birth control? And I said, because I don't need it. I'm not sexually active. And she's like well you're gonna have sex at some point before 50. And I was like, yeah, that's, that is likely. I said, yeah, that's, that's likely.

  [00:23:16] RJ Smith: I'll consider it. I in the future, you know, if I need it. And she sighed, like in annoyance, like I should have just accepted birth control because she said, so, you know, no consideration about my lifestyle. And then she went, Took it even further and was like, well, you know, if you left my office today and met someone and you got an i u d, you would be good.

  [00:23:42] RJ Smith: And I was like, yeah, I just really need to think about it. Because I'm not sexually active now. I'm not seeing anyone. So, you know, I'll think about it and I could tell that bothered her because whatever she said, I was supposed, supposed to just jump up and say yes. Okay. So wait,

  [00:23:59] Dr. Jill Baker: so let's step back for a second.

  [00:24:01] Dr. Jill Baker: So there was no que because usually they ask you at these visits, are you sexually active now and then, do you have any plans of getting

  [00:24:15] RJ Smith: pregnant? That, that question, typically that question did not happen. She, she jumped when, because when you go to these appointments and you have to fill out the form in advance going, you're supposed to list all your prescriptions, so, correct.

  [00:24:33] RJ Smith: So based on the computer and the data that I had entered, she saw that I did not have a birth control within the list of prescriptions that I had provided. So she jumped and was like, why aren't you taking birth control? Okay,

  [00:24:51] Dr. Jill Baker: so another question. Do you have any other health conditions where people typically.

  [00:24:57] Dr. Jill Baker: Do take birth control like anemia, pcos?

  [00:25:01] RJ Smith: No. No, nothing. Okay. So Cause

  [00:25:06] Dr. Jill Baker: then I would be like,

  [00:25:07] RJ Smith: no, nothing.

  [00:25:08] Dr. Jill Baker: Maybe although pill, you know, birth control pills are, have, are still with people that have PCOS are too highly prescribed for, even for women that have pcos and not trying to find other methods of con, you know, controlling symptoms.

  [00:25:27] Dr. Jill Baker: But I could understand that more as that being her first question, if that were the case. So I'm, I'm very just Okay.

  [00:25:39] RJ Smith: I'm just very surprised and you see me on camera. I know nowadays they tell people it's good for acne. I don't have one pimple

  [00:25:45] Dr. Jill Baker: to acne. Or if you have heavy periods,

  [00:25:48] RJ Smith: none of that. I have, I have none of the above.

  [00:25:51] RJ Smith: This is me going to an appointment. Okay. To stay ahead of the curve because I believe an ounce of prevention is right. Better than a pound of cure. Are you

  [00:26:00] Dr. Jill Baker: comfortable with telling everyone how old you were at this visit?

  [00:26:04] RJ Smith: Yes. I was 30 years old.

  [00:26:07] Dr. Jill Baker: Okay. Cause I like, think that's important for people to know, like where for age and then your fertility, right.

  [00:26:14] Dr. Jill Baker: Health and all that stuff. So everything that you're doing for 30. It is right on point. Like I, I wish the only thing I would've changed about my journey is I would've started earlier. Mm-hmm. I, you know, waited until 31, 32 to try to get pregnant. Two and a half years. That's how long it took. I, I wish I was like you and like, I need to know

  [00:26:38] RJ Smith: where I stand.

  [00:26:39] RJ Smith: Exactly. And, and you know, it's funny you, you bring that up because the other journey I watched those two older cousins go through was with fibroids and having to have them search and leave removed. And I was that too. And so they, they told me, and I have a whole group chat, they were like, you make sure you make sure you get checked and if you need to have them removed now, it doesn't matter if you haven't met any your partner yet, get, you can get

  [00:27:05] Dr. Jill Baker: them removed Exactly.

  [00:27:06] Dr. Jill Baker: Before that even happens. Right. And hello people. Exactly. And maternal health 9 1 1. Audience fibroids run rampant for black women. It's one of the most yeah, I mean a high risk factor for infertility. So please keep that as one of the things that when you're ready to decide whether you wanna have a baby or not of, you may have to see if you have fibroids or not.

  [00:27:36] Dr. Jill Baker: And you certainly, as Rosalyn said, you can get them removed before any partner or anything comes into the situation. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my. Okay. Yeah. All right. So let's get back to, before I'm taking you totally off track, but these are good que these are good questions. So then you're not on birth control. She seems upset that you're

  [00:27:58] RJ Smith: not on birth.

  [00:27:58] RJ Smith: Birth control. She's upset that I'm not on birth control and she ends up recommending an I U D and that I was taken aback. Okay. So I'm

  [00:28:06] Dr. Jill Baker: kind of surprised about that. Mm-hmm. Because typ, okay, so everyone knows I'm not a medical doctor, so this is not medical advice. I'm a public health doctor, but just speaking from my own experience, typically, and friends of mine who are on IUDs, or when you're, when you're OB, G Y N is like, maybe you wanna try i u d.

  [00:28:28] Dr. Jill Baker: It's typically if you're married and if you've been married for a long time, not when you're single, and the doctor doesn't know if you're trying to have a baby or not. Yes. So, and yeah,

  [00:28:46] RJ Smith: I'm very surprised. Well, I, I, I

  [00:28:48] Dr. Jill Baker: think it, but she's right. Could, I mean, could it keep you from getting pro? Of course. I, yes.

  [00:28:52] RJ Smith: That's what it does. It gets worse. It gets so Okay. It, this is where things really go downhill. Okay. So I was surprised by her recommendation of an I uud. And I knew it was something I had to think about. Especially because I asked what are the side effects of an I U D? And when she told me that it could cause additional cramping or Yes and so forth, I was like, oh, I need to think about that.

  [00:29:16] RJ Smith: And she's like, well, if you left my office today and met someone, then you'd be good. And so I laughed because I just thought, oh my goodness, she is so crazy to say something like that. So you're suggesting that I would leave and have a one night stand with a stranger after getting out of your office, but I took it to be like, okay, maybe she's just being, maybe she's being facetious, but it's like once you compound that with the comment about whether or not my sister is black, so is my sister black who happens to know a foreign language, two foreign languages, now you're suggesting that I get an I U D even though I'm not sexually active because I might have a, what I might have.

  [00:30:02] RJ Smith: And do you

  [00:30:02] Dr. Jill Baker: know that another side effect of I U D is it decreases potentially sex drive? And so that's from, I never been, I'm like, I'm okay. No, my best friend told me my, a lot of my friends have been on IUDs and most of them have had, have not had positive experiences. And so from. I've been asked a million times since I've been married.

  [00:30:26] Dr. Jill Baker: Do I wanna have an i u d? Well that's actually how I ended up having Aari cuz my, my OB g y N nurse was like, do you wanna do iud? Cause you're not doing anything. No. And then I got pregnant with my youngest.

  [00:30:38] RJ Smith: Well there you,

  [00:30:39] Dr. Jill Baker: I was like, no. Like I haven't heard good things about I Thank you Pat. Pat. Right.

  [00:30:45] Dr. Jill Baker: And, but I've been with my husband for Right. 18

  [00:30:48] RJ Smith: years at that point. Right. I haven't heard good things either. So I knew I needed to really think about it. But it's like the fact her reasoning is problematic for me. Why? Why does a woman that is not sexually active need to be on an i u D? And when they, for any birth control?

  [00:31:10] RJ Smith: For any birth control. And when I push back, you don't have to. But you're saying, because I might leave your office and have a one night stand. Right.

  [00:31:22] Dr. Jill Baker: And how are you supposed to

  [00:31:23] RJ Smith: take that? Exactly. Exactly. Oh. So then, oh my goodness. Gosh, this is okay.

  [00:31:33] Dr. Jill Baker: I

  [00:31:33] RJ Smith: know this is like a train wreck. It it is. It's a whole train wreck.

  [00:31:36] RJ Smith: Oh my gosh. It's the whole twilight zone. You know, I never thought I'd be sitting in the chair right now with a story like this. I thought I had all my scars from corporate America and my microaggressions there. That was nothing compared to the level of violation I went through this

  [00:31:51] Dr. Jill Baker: day. And that speaks volumes cause we, I know what you go, what you go through in that environment.

  [00:32:00] RJ Smith: Correct? Correct. So at this point, she has come on the right side of me and is raising my arm to start to do a breast exam. And then she continues she starts asking me about my sister and I had mentioned I had went to visit and she was asking me kind of rapid questions like, you know, how long was the flight?

  [00:32:23] RJ Smith: Just little intricate details about my trip. And I, and I told her, I said, yeah, and I was jet lagged and whatever. And it was great. And then I had then the medical assistant had came in for the beginning of the appointment. I had been in the room by myself until the doctor came in. So that medical assistant came in and she started talking about the fact that her granddaughter likes K-Pop and all the kids listen to K-Pop now.

  [00:32:49] RJ Smith: So she's not surprised that. My sister was so easily able to get on well with the Korean culture cuz kids over here are listening to music in Korea. Yes. Right. They're, yeah. And so the medical assistant ended up leaving the room and by this point, the second part of the left breast exam had already happened and the doctor was trying to get me to slide down to the end of the platform until, so that my bottom half would be on the edge of the table.

  [00:33:21] RJ Smith: And so she goes over to, you know, start to unravel the, the instruments that you use to do pap smears and so forth. Right. And so I had speculum. Exactly. Exactly right. And so at this point, the speculum was already inside of me. Okay. Was it a metal or It was a cold metal one. And gold metal one. And here's the thing.

  [00:33:46] RJ Smith: No worse. Well, here's the worse. Not only was it the worst, it's the fact that it was January 4th and there was even a cold draft. From the windows coming into the room. So I'm there butt naked with my legs open, and this cold metal speculum is inside of me. And so I start to tell her, Hey, I'm really concerned about fibroids.

  [00:34:10] RJ Smith: I had heard different things about what causes them such as chemical hair relaxers. And, and, and before I could finish my sentence, she interrupted me. She said, that's not true. That's not true. You do know you don't have to be a man in order to be a misogynist. And then she has the medical instruments in her hand, but she's going to use in my body.

  [00:34:35] RJ Smith: And she's waving them around wildly and stopping her feet. And she's saying, I'm tired of all the woman bashing that's been going on since the beginning of the pandemic. I'm losing my filter. And she's literally waving the, the, the instruments above her head and above my head. And I'm tensing up around the speculum because I was horrified.

  [00:34:58] RJ Smith: Because it's yes. Yes. It cause being in that position is already a very triggering experience and so

  [00:35:06] Dr. Jill Baker: triggering vulnerable. Correct. Correct. No woman wants to, you don't wanna have to do that

  [00:35:14] RJ Smith: ever. Right. Period. Exactly. And here I am saying, and so now this is

  [00:35:18] Dr. Jill Baker: happening. Yes. This is being so you being yelled at while you're.

  [00:35:22] Dr. Jill Baker: Metal speculum is in. Okay. Correct. Inside your, okay,

  [00:35:27] RJ Smith: John. Correct. And I'm, and I have this cold draft on me. And so, and you know what made it completely worse? I was on the second day of my cycle. So that feeling of I can't get up because, and typically,

  [00:35:42] Dr. Jill Baker: okay, so do you typically try to re So for me, like if I know I have a G Y N appointment and I had speculum has to be used and I'm on my side, I would try to reschedule.

  [00:35:56] Dr. Jill Baker: Cause I'm like, I don't, that's a, that is like one of the worst times to have your period.

  [00:36:02] RJ Smith: Well here's the thing, because of Covid, I was behind on appointments. Well, right, right. I wasn't only behind everyone was so was behind. Right. So if I tried to reschedule, you're looking at a four or a five month or five month thing, right?

  [00:36:20] RJ Smith: So I said yes, that's true because I'm only on my second day. Let me just go ahead. I had done some Googling to show that you can go to these appointments.

  [00:36:28] Dr. Jill Baker: Yes you can. And everyone you can go, oh, but for comfort level, right? Oh, to you can, depending on the situation, if it's not urgent or you know, you don't need, you can also reschedule.

  [00:36:41] Dr. Jill Baker: But can you still get it done and the exams can be done and get results that are accurate? Yes.

  [00:36:46] RJ Smith: 100%. Right. And so that made the experience worse because for me it's that feeling of, oh my God, if I get up from this position, not only do I have this instrument in me that I don't know how to get out, I am bleeding and the bl the blood is gonna, I'm gonna have to catch the blood on my leg while I'm, my, while I'm in this paper, you know, thing.

  [00:37:11] RJ Smith: And she was so careless with her movements. And, and it's interesting because she started to calm down after she went on this rampage and I, I'm there just frozen silent as she's doing the, the swabbing. And So did she finish

  [00:37:31] Dr. Jill Baker: or did she No, she was the cotton swab.

  [00:37:34] RJ Smith: She wasn't finished yet. She wasn't finished.

  [00:37:36] RJ Smith: Ok. She was, as she was swabbing me, she shouted, she said, you are at high risk for fibroids simply because you're black. And this is as she's swabbing me.

  [00:37:51] Dr. Jill Baker: And she just yelled. Yeah, yelled it just like that. Yeah, she

  [00:37:55] RJ Smith: did. She did. As if you couldn't hear what I know. I know. She was So, you're right there.

  [00:38:01] Dr. Jill Baker: You're this close to each other. Correct. There's no need to

  [00:38:07] RJ Smith: yell. There's no need to yell and be so aggressive. But I now in hindsight, see that. Her ego was fragile over me, not saying yes to birth control, or at least that's how I've interpreted it in the months that have passed since this has happened.

  [00:38:22] RJ Smith: Because I, and not only that, I think there's something to be said about what we are taught about doctors and how we should treat them. And I, and me being a black woman, maybe I wasn't supposed to come in there and advocate for myself or be clear about my lifestyle choices. Maybe I was just supposed to do what she, she said, or be

  [00:38:45] Dr. Jill Baker: educated or know.

  [00:38:48] Dr. Jill Baker: And, you know, some be proactive about your

  [00:38:51] RJ Smith: health. So it's funny you bring that point up because I had a pastor who is a Puerto Rican woman that had prayed with me because she has known me for a long time, ever since I was in college. And she herself no longer goes to ob gyn for, for another kind of similar reason, but not as dramatic as my story.

  [00:39:17] RJ Smith: Yeah. And she said to me, she said, Boland, you went in there, you know, you were talking about your travel experiences to Asia and your sister knows these languages and you dress really nicely. You know how some of our people are. When they get a title or a position, you know, they're supposed to be above other people of their own kind.

  [00:39:44] RJ Smith: And, and maybe the way you showed up that was you, but maybe it was triggering for her. Mm wow. Which is terrible to think that, but,

  [00:39:58] Dr. Jill Baker: but she, there's some truth on what she's saying,

  [00:40:01] RJ Smith: but No, exactly. And I even remember I had had a like a fox for a thing that I

  [00:40:07] Dr. Jill Baker: had before. So, wait, did she tell you how long, like, when the last time was that she went to her OBJ or how many years?

  [00:40:15] RJ Smith: Oh, she does. She, she hasn't gone, it's been years. Like she doesn't go all together. She doesn't go all together cuz she said, and she's a, she's a, she's a Puerto Rican woman. Puerto Rican. And she told me that these, there are, it's all about money. They don't care about people. The last time she went to a OB g Yn appointment, they didn't check her correctly and she was asking about a certain cause she's a older, she's a older woman.

  [00:40:42] RJ Smith: Yeah. Like she's, I think she's maybe 60 plus so different things happened. Okay. Right. But I wanna say she was asking about something like a type of medication that I think. Women of a certain age take for vaginal dryness or just other things that happen. Okay. Right, right down, down the line. Yes. Right.

  [00:41:01] RJ Smith: And she said, yeah, I was asking her about it and I told her I was asking for a friend, but she automatically assumed that I was asking for myself. And that I was just saying that to have a roundabout way conversation. And it's like this woman, this Puerto Rican woman is like she is a leader in the state of New Jersey.

  [00:41:20] RJ Smith: You might have even crossed paths with her and not realize it. She is a lobbyist, like she's a partner at her lobbying firm. This is an educated woman that has done a lot for her community. Like, why are you disrespecting this woman if she's asking about medication for a friend or some type of new drug, even if it was for herself.

  [00:41:41] RJ Smith: You don't have to condescend or be like a jerk about it. But that's what what I'm learning is that these behaviors are more common than uncommon.

  [00:41:50] Dr. Jill Baker: These experiences, these experiences are there are, are are unfortunately way too common. Yeah. For, for us, for women of color. Yeah. Oh my gosh. And who knows in her situation, she could, now she's success, you know, she can be at risk for a number of, can, you know what I'm saying?

  [00:42:13] Dr. Jill Baker: And

  [00:42:13] RJ Smith: she, she

  [00:42:13] Dr. Jill Baker: refuses to go HPVs cervical cancer, you know that. And so her not. Going to her ob gyn, now she's could die before she needs to die, is what I'm saying.

  [00:42:28] RJ Smith: Absolutely. And that's the problem. Well, and I think it's created a general distrust with doctors for her, cuz she is at the age where you would have things like a colonoscopy and other types of screening and she doesn't get any of those.

  [00:42:42] RJ Smith: And so it, it seems like her incident left a bad taste in her mouth like mine. But honestly, she was so angry when she heard my story. So again, here I go. I'm, I'm being blatantly disrespected, but at this point this woman is sitting between my legs. So it's like I'm trying to make the best of a situation.

  [00:43:06] RJ Smith: And so I told a joke because I know that this particular doctor, she happens to be Jamaican. I'm Jamaican. And. So I had told her, I said, yeah, me and my sister, we even went to a Jamaican restaurant while we were in Korea or something about a Jamaican restaurant overseas. Yeah. And there was an argument over the price of the patty and she laughed again.

  [00:43:30] RJ Smith: Exactly. And you, you, because you know the Bronx and where you lived in the Bronx. Right. You know exactly what I'm talking about.

  [00:43:37] Dr. Jill Baker: I got married in Jamaica and my husband parked Jamaican. So I love anything Jamaican and a food.

  [00:43:43] RJ Smith: Yes. That's

  [00:43:43] Dr. Jill Baker: how I'm

  [00:43:44] RJ Smith: curious. And all the beef. So there was, there was an argument over the Bronx.

  [00:43:49] RJ Smith: Yeah. Shout

  [00:43:50] Dr. Jill Baker: out to Gold Mcgras. Yeah.

  [00:43:51] RJ Smith: Yeah. And actually my godparents have a Jamaican restaurant in Orange, New Jersey. Oh. That I used to work in as a teenager. So I've, would I tell you That is so cool. Lemme tell you, I've served plenty of patties and cocoa bread with cocoa bread That's right. In my day.

  [00:44:09] RJ Smith: And so, so wait, so does she laugh? She laughed and she said, oh my God, our people went over there and showed themselves

  [00:44:19] Dr. Jill Baker: she is not making this. So she, she's like, she's not making this better at all. Not at all. No. She's just okay. So she's like, no, I'm not making this better. I'm not. No,

  [00:44:31] RJ Smith: no. And it's clear she has a lot of issues with self hate and I realize that in hindsight, whereas I can joke about things lightly.

  [00:44:37] RJ Smith: Like I have I have at least. Three cousins and two Jamaican friends that have sent me this trending video on social media about why you never hire a Jamaican DJ to do your wedding. And in this video, the, the, the DJ is saying all kinds of things that, you know, in front of mixed company that you just wouldn't want to be said at a wedding.

  [00:45:01] RJ Smith: And we are just hollering about it. And me and my cousins send each other videos all the time about how strict Jamaican parents are, and we laugh about the beatings we used to get and all this kind of stuff. So there are elements of those, of that culture that are so beautiful and that are so awesome.

  [00:45:21] RJ Smith: Yes. Yes. But just like any other culture of the diaspora where, and the, the legacy of corporal punishment and some other, you know, ideologies that we have ingrained in us from being descendants of people that were held captive and Right. Abused, you know, there are parts of the culture that are not so pleasant, but I'm able to laugh about them.

  [00:45:45] RJ Smith: I am proud of the dialect there. I do not consider it broken English, just like English is a derivative of Latin and other earlier languages. Right. Exactly. Taught to me is a derivative the same. Right. Exactly. Of, of English and West African languages. I'm, you know, I. Even though I work in such a white space, I, I do not have that colonialized mind frame shame about my people, where I came from and what we survived.

  [00:46:18] RJ Smith: Right. So, oh gosh. I love it gets,

  [00:46:23] Dr. Jill Baker: okay, so wait. Alright, so let's go back. So I love all this, I love all the, you know, Jamaica's my favorite place to ever be. So did the medical, okay, so let's go back to this for a second to the scene. Did the medical assistant come back? No, after, not until, so the medical assistant didn't come back, did not

  [00:46:42] RJ Smith: come back during the exam period.

  [00:46:44] RJ Smith: Okay. She only came back at the a after the appointment was already over and the doctor had left. But, ok. There's, there's a key part before the end of the appointment. Ok. So again, cause this doctor was so grouchy, so rude, so attitudinal. So when she made the comment that, you know, our people had went there and shown themselves and yada yada, she was, had, we were in the part of the exam where she had, was like wrapping up the exam and it looked like she was getting ready to leave.

  [00:47:14] RJ Smith: And at this point I was sitting up. And I said to her, wait, before you go, I was like, should I have concerns about my fertility? And so I was jokingly, I was like, well, well, you know how Jamaicans are. And before I could even say anything else, she was, she put her hand, well, no, wait a minute. She asked me, are you trying to get pregnant?

  [00:47:39] RJ Smith: But the way she did it was very aggressive. She, you know, like when you play double Dutch? Yes. And to get into the middle of double Dutch, you have to do the sway.

  [00:47:50] Dr. Jill Baker: I learned on the orange electrical cord.

  [00:47:54] RJ Smith: I'm done. Not the extension cord. Yes. That's how we, I'm too thrilled with you. You lucky. You lucky We're virtual

  [00:48:02] Dr. Jill Baker: and my cousins and

  [00:48:04] RJ Smith: everybody.

  [00:48:05] RJ Smith: You, you're so

  [00:48:06] Dr. Jill Baker: lucky. This is, it made us lu real fast.

  [00:48:11] RJ Smith: Cause that hurts.

  [00:48:14] Dr. Jill Baker: Yeah, of course. We were all just wel up. Oh yes, it hurt. So I know exactly what you're talking about. So I love this

  [00:48:21] RJ Smith: analogy. So the way she did it, like asking me if I was trying to get pregnant, she like put her foot forward and like jolted at me.

  [00:48:29] RJ Smith: Well, are you trying to get pregnant? And so I said, yeah, exactly,

  [00:48:35] Dr. Jill Baker: exactly. Sorry, I'm making a face. Everyone can't see it. I'm, I'm very disturbed. I'm just,

  [00:48:39] RJ Smith: yeah, exactly. I'm so disturbed. And I said to her, disturbed, no. I was like, no, I'm, I'm not sexually active. I just wanna consider you know, all my options.

  [00:48:48] RJ Smith: And I started to bring up my family about, well, you know, all my Jamaican family. She's like, I'm Jamaican. And like, she put her arm out, like she was gonna mush me, so let's not paint all Jamaicans with a broad stroke. And she, like, she lunged towards me as she was like moving her arm upward to the point that I was very scared because it was like, when you're gonna mush someone, it's like, you're, you're gonna be hit and I'm Oh, then

  [00:49:15] Dr. Jill Baker: you're gonna feel flight or your flight or, well, not

  [00:49:19] RJ Smith: at that point.

  [00:49:20] RJ Smith: Well, not only that, the fact that this was a setting of an O B G Y N exam, I became more aware of my nudity and was Oh, right. And it was to the point that I jumped and like so afraid to the point that my breasts were shaking from me, shaking like that. And I was looking at her and I realized she, that's who, I guess she's just used to bullying people.

  [00:49:44] RJ Smith: And I said, yeah, I, I, I said, well, I'm Jamaican like my relatives, and I'm concerned about my fertility in the long term. And, and here's a reality, and I, and you can correct me because. I think the diaspora has different pockets, and in that culture, women tend to marry young and have children young. And you're, you're not supposed to just have one child, you know, you're supposed to have at least two or three.

  [00:50:16] RJ Smith: And like my mother had four children. Yeah. My great grandmother. I think she had 11 children and Wow. Right. Yes. Lived off the Yes.

  [00:50:27] Dr. Jill Baker: A generation back. Yes.

  [00:50:29] RJ Smith: Right, exactly. And my family is so big because of just all

  [00:50:33] Dr. Jill Baker: Jamaicans have huge families, I guess. Absolutely. Yeah. Everybody knows that.

  [00:50:38] RJ Smith: Exactly. As a matter of fact take your

  [00:50:41] Dr. Jill Baker: family and multiply it by 500.

  [00:50:43] RJ Smith: No, no, it's fun. It's funny you say that because there was a wedding in, I can say it, the Jamaican sandals Resort and, and, but it was a Jamaican family. So you had people coming from Canada, from US and uk. Right. From then you have like London local family. Yep. And they said it was the biggest wedding that they've ever had.

  [00:51:07] RJ Smith: Of course it was. So, so she, she she looked like she calmed down for a second and she was like, huh, well, and she put her hand up. She's like, well, don't quote me. But you don't have to worry about your fertility. That's why you see Jamaicans all over the world. And she thrusted her hands forward, like all over the world.

  [00:51:35] RJ Smith: And then she concluded the appointment and left. And I was standing there just, or sitting there just shocked. She did not consider my fertility concern at all. Did not walk me through any options. She just made it clear that because I was Jamaican, I didn't need to worry about my fertility. And that's why you see Jamaicans all over the world.

  [00:51:56] RJ Smith: And

  [00:51:57] Dr. Jill Baker: that should have been the first question. Well, it should have been the first question. Right. But her an, I mean her anger,

  [00:52:07] RJ Smith: right? The level of

  [00:52:10] Dr. Jill Baker: anger, the level of anger, the level of anger and, and aggression and the disrespect, aggression, the, the

  [00:52:15] RJ Smith: physical aggression. Right. And just no respect for me as a human being, you know?

  [00:52:20] RJ Smith: And, and that's what kills me about this experience. Yeah. When my brother died in March of 2020, he had a cat. And I didn't know much about the cat, but once he had passed, and mind you, we couldn't have a funeral because it was covid. Right. I went to where he had been living and I took the cat to the vet to get it.

  [00:52:43] RJ Smith: It shots cuz I don't, I had no way to know whether or not he'd already done that. And to see. Cat was treated with more respect. Mm-hmm. With more, you know, delicate, let's just say

  [00:53:01] Dr. Jill Baker: pets, period.

  [00:53:04] RJ Smith: Never be treated like that. I mean, the way I was treated, it was just so horrific. And, and the fact that all I've asked for since it happened was an apology.

  [00:53:18] RJ Smith: And, and I, when I shared this with the same Puerto Rican pastor, I said, well, all I asked for was an apology. And she's like, look, you have to understand some of our people, once they get that title, once they have a position, they're above it. And she probably is not gonna be able to humble herself enough to, to apologize.

  [00:53:41] RJ Smith: And I said, you know what's interesting? I was like, well, she is a, and,

  [00:53:44] Dr. Jill Baker: but she was also wrong too. Like, just because you're Jamaican does not mean that you are, you won't have, you

  [00:53:56] RJ Smith: can have fertility issues if you're, well, look at my two older cousins that are Jamaican, that had fibroids, had issues, right, had issues with

  [00:54:06] Dr. Jill Baker: that.

  [00:54:07] Dr. Jill Baker: Does not protect you from having fertility. If anything, if anything, And I can, you know, cause my husband is part, have Jamaican, it makes it harder to tell people

  [00:54:25] Dr. Jill Baker: you're black and, oh, somebody's Jamaican or Caribbean, whatever. Oh, you can't have, you're struggling with having, cuz that's not, that's not okay. That's not what, that's not what hap what is supposed, well, what people

  [00:54:38] RJ Smith: think is supposed to happen. What? Oh, well, well not only that, it's the, once you start creeping up and you're, and for me, the life that I live, being a woman that lives by myself, that has this career that travels to foreign countries by way of my career, I'm an anomaly to some of them.

  [00:54:58] RJ Smith: Right? Like, they don't understand my life or how I'm able to afford to do the things that I do on my own. And so, anytime I go to see my godmother, or, oh gosh, I won't even get into the things that my grandmother has said to me. Like, gosh, what, like one Thanksgiving she had said in front of everybody, it looks like you just wanna be an old bride.

  [00:55:22] RJ Smith: Yeah. And she said it with such, yeah, she said it with such disdain and disapproval. It looks like you just wanna be an old bride. And then I had another like, relative, oh, I, I was walking into a funeral. Oh my goodness. And they're looking behind me. They said, you don't have children yet. And this was a male cousin.

  [00:55:41] RJ Smith: He was like, oh. Hmm. Not yet. And it's almost puzzling, like to just be this woman that is single and without children I know. Without children. Right. And to them, whoa. But you look so nice. So it's like,

  [00:55:58] Dr. Jill Baker: I have to, so if I have children, I can't look, I wouldn't look

  [00:56:02] RJ Smith: nice. No, it's, it's them saying like, well, it doesn't seem like anything's wrong with you.

  [00:56:07] RJ Smith: You, you're attractive enough to get a man, so why don't you have one? Mm. So implying that woman, right. Women that look like me, you know, would have been bred already. That's kinda the Right. The mentality. Yes.

  [00:56:22] Dr. Jill Baker: Right, right, right, right. Yeah. But yet, none of these things are reasons of why people don't understand your life, your experience and what you decide to do and how you decide to live your life and operate and move.

  [00:56:41] Dr. Jill Baker: Mm-hmm. That should not equate to this level of horrific treatment. I

  [00:56:50] RJ Smith: know at a doctor's and the, and the fact appointment that this woman, and this is the part that was just so, it was so hurtful, I, and it, and it hurts me to say this. I, I almost, I would've felt better if she had been a white male or a white woman.

  [00:57:11] RJ Smith: The fact that it came from somebody that resembles half of my family. Right. Right. That like, this should've, this should've been a win-win. This should have been the doctor that when my relatives, when too many try to get in the room when I'm giving birth, would've been able to be like, no, back up. Go. You know, like she should have understood the culture and been able to move in and out of it, you know, in the event I was there for something else or culturally the same.

  [00:57:42] RJ Smith: So she might understand why I'm eating certain things or not eating certain things. So I'm thinking I've hit the jackpot. Right. Right. To have this Yes. Right. Fantastic black female doctor that I thought shared the same culture with me. But I, I, I've had to come to terms with, I think because Jamaica is a developing country, depending on when you were born and where some people might not have positive memories of it and this is a greater impact of colonialism and these uni European powers that dominated spaces.

  [00:58:19] RJ Smith: And then when they left these spaces, those places became more war to and in a lot of upheaval. Now I don't think that this doctor, she's not as old as my parents. I think my parents went through a lot cause they were born when the queen still ruled. The British Islands mm-hmm. And Caribbean. Yes. Right.

  [00:58:41] RJ Smith: And, and they were children as Jamaica was getting their, its independence and a lot of violence happened. Right. So everyone does not have good memories of it. I have girlfriends that were left homeless when their mom or their dad fled the country to find a better opportunity. I, you know, there's so many stories of things that happened to people, you know, if you are, I would say if you're 50 and over and you grew up in that Jamaica, then she, and you weren't wealthy, something probably did happen to you.

  [00:59:17] RJ Smith: Yeah. Right? Yeah. But that still to me, does not excuse how she treated me. I believe that, oh, I'm saying that she felt that she could say and do whatever she wanted. Because I'm a woman, because I'm a black woman. And I think because we are so taught that snitches get stitches that we, that we protect our own, a lot of us have this OJ syndrome where even if we know that the person is guilty and they did it, we don't wanna give them up.

  [00:59:52] RJ Smith: Right.

  [00:59:53] Dr. Jill Baker: Right, right, right. So with that, so do you think that you are the first person that she's. Acted like this with No,

  [01:00:06] RJ Smith: no. And I, and I, I really, I kick myself sometimes because after this happened, I was so struck and so hurt. And, you know, when somebody does something, when you're violated to a point like that where you really, it's like that rage that came over me and the fact that I felt that fight or flight response in that space.

  [01:00:28] RJ Smith: Right? Yeah. Yeah.

  [01:00:29] Dr. Jill Baker: And can we just say like, that's one of the most vulnerable spaces ever, right? That when you get any fertility exam and when you're delivering a baby that you don't need any, you don't need that. No.

  [01:00:49] RJ Smith: No. It shouldn't have happened. And, and up until this point, I just, I hate that

  [01:00:53] Dr. Jill Baker: this hap this happened.

  [01:00:55] Dr. Jill Baker: I just

  [01:00:55] RJ Smith: hate that. And I hate that it happened with her her. Right. Because here's the thing. After this happened, I went and read her online reviews, some of which were horrible. Mm-hmm. Oh, ok. Yeah. There was a woman on there who had said that before she was fully dilated, it seemed like this doctor was rushing.

  [01:01:16] RJ Smith: To get, I guess, to to switch.

  [01:01:19] Dr. Jill Baker: Okay. Oh my gosh. Wait, so you just brought it to, okay. Yes. She

  [01:01:23] RJ Smith: delivers babies

  [01:01:25] Dr. Jill Baker: get this people, yes. I know she's an ob gyn, but I'm just focused on my

  [01:01:29] RJ Smith: appointment gyn That's the thing that killed me about this cuz I'm like, so wait a minute. So the woman was not fully dilated and she claims that the doctor rushed in, was shouting at her and took the vacuum and vacuumed the baby out and that it permanently maimed her.

  [01:01:50] RJ Smith: That she, no, she went searching for lawyers to take her case, but she was so overwhelmed with having a newborn. Mind you, it, she also, she wrote this. Oh, she, it's also Ms. Hold, it's public on Yelp. And I, let me tell you something. Oh, wow. I messaged that woman. Wow. And I had a conversation with her over the phone.

  [01:02:09] RJ Smith: Oh, wow. But here's the thing that was crazy when I spoke to that woman, she said, Rosalyn, I want you to know that I'm white. My baby is white, my husband is white, and this is what happened to me. It, I don't think it was because of the color of your skin. And so I was like, ok, whew. Yeah. Right. So this,

  [01:02:39] Dr. Jill Baker: and whoever, we won't say her name right.

  [01:02:42] Dr. Jill Baker: But whoever that says, and you are a sister, First of all, I am so sorry from the bottom of my heart that you even had that experience. I, I. But thank you for talk, for talking to Rosalyn and sharing that because Wow.

  [01:03:02] RJ Smith: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I Did you feel

  [01:03:05] Dr. Jill Baker: a little bit like, okay, I can take a little bit off my back

  [01:03:10] RJ Smith: a little.

  [01:03:10] RJ Smith: I, I could a little, well, here's the thing. Maybe a little, it's two things. That wasn't the only negative review, and that's not the only prior patient that I had spoken to. It's the fact that, because I got referred to this doctor from one of my woke sisters that went to Howard and all her home girls from Howard not,

  [01:03:30] Dr. Jill Baker: and shout out to Howard,

  [01:03:32] RJ Smith: but, but here's my problem.

  [01:03:34] RJ Smith: No

  [01:03:34] Dr. Jill Baker: issue with, with, with them.

  [01:03:36] RJ Smith: I gave this woman the benefit of the doubt off of the strength of a personal referral and the fact that other women that look like us went

  [01:03:46] Dr. Jill Baker: to her. But that's what we do though. And I've, I've talked about this on the show so many times, that when people are like, well, how do you know which doctor to go to?

  [01:03:55] Dr. Jill Baker: I'm like, talk to your friends. Because even my fti, my fertility doc doc, Dr. But someone else told me about her. I had, we had the best experience. My doctor Dr. Barum that delivered, well, she was my ob, G y n when I had amari black woman and she was referred to by me, had the best experience. So it was like, that's what we typically do and we hope that Yeah.

  [01:04:25] Dr. Jill Baker: It's like, okay, this should work out.

  [01:04:27] RJ Smith: Correct. Correct. So it's, so when is the total opposite the, to, I mean, the total opposite. The complete opposite. And the thing about it is when you're violating someone like that in that space, the, the lasting impact that it's had on me is akin to, to being a rape victim and, and

  [01:04:48] Dr. Jill Baker: not Yes.

  [01:04:49] Dr. Jill Baker: Right. PTs, it's all the, yeah. PTs D anxiety.

  [01:04:56] RJ Smith: Exactly. Depression. Yeah. Well, but get this, get this part that, that kills me. Is that what I've had to go through since this happened? So talking to that former patient, Forced me to check my own assumptions about why this happened to me and say maybe she's just not a good doctor.

  [01:05:21] RJ Smith: And I, and I was digging a little bit deeper and I looked up, I, I came across this term around obstetric violence. And that's definitely what this woman, the other patient had went through. There's another former patient I had spoken to who was pregnant and felt that something was wrong. She called the doctor and I think left the message and was adamant about talking to the doctor.

  [01:05:45] RJ Smith: And so she said that the doctor got on the phone and it was clear that she was very annoyed. And she's like, at your stage of pregnancy, it's normal. It's normal for babies to not to move. So, you know, like just had a nasty attitude. And so the woman believed her because she, and this is another black woman, she had trusted her.

  [01:06:03] RJ Smith: She's like, this was my ob g yn. And I'm gonna assume

  [01:06:06] Dr. Jill Baker: this part. Was this her first pregnancy?

  [01:06:08] RJ Smith: It was her first

  [01:06:09] Dr. Jill Baker: pregnancy, yes. So, yes. So you don't have the experience to know that, no, this is not normal. And then Right. You're gonna listen to what your

  [01:06:21] RJ Smith: obese says. So she ended up, I believe, with a stillborn or a miscarriage, one of those, one of those things.

  [01:06:30] RJ Smith: And she, and she said to me, she, she said, Rosalyn, I was so devastated after this happened. I really couldn't do anything and I regret not suing. Oh, she lost her baby. She lost her baby. She lost her baby.

  [01:06:55] RJ Smith: This is,

  [01:06:56] Dr. Jill Baker: that's why this is, all of

  [01:06:57] RJ Smith: this is life or death, correct. Well, and it's not just the, the experience, it's what it robs you of in terms of time and energy and focus. You know, when this had happened to me, I had

  [01:07:12] Dr. Jill Baker: just gotten your emotional and mental

  [01:07:17] RJ Smith: well, oh my God. Just so destructive. Which is more

  [01:07:21] Dr. Jill Baker: valuable than

  [01:07:22] RJ Smith: anything else.

  [01:07:24] RJ Smith: Not only that, I'm expected to function at a very high level in corporate America. We still have to work Correct. To survive, take care of correct ourselves. Correct. And, and you know, what's hurtful for me is the fact that in corporate America, I have been such a champion of diversity. I have sat on interview panels where I felt a candidate was not getting a fair shot, and I stood up and was like, no, actually we're, we're gonna bring them in for a second interview because, you know, I, because here's what's interesting.

  [01:08:06] RJ Smith: I love

  [01:08:06] Dr. Jill Baker: that because sometimes the first one that that doesn't go well, we've all been

  [01:08:11] RJ Smith: there. Right. Or what some people are not honest about is that they're not comfortable with people different from them. And so what mm-hmm. So if I interview someone that happens to be bipo or particularly like black, right?

  [01:08:28] RJ Smith: You know, like I, I think that because I'm black and culturally and physically, I'm unambiguous to anyone that's listening, right? Yes. Unambiguous, right? I think I'm just able to go in and connect and talk to them like, oh, where you from? Yada, yada. Oh, you're Haitian. Ah, ok, let's talk about your resume.

  [01:08:50] Dr. Jill Baker: Right? When you have someone Yes. Yeah. Black brown or whatever that interviews you for a job or anything, it's like typically you wanna be like, okay, I can calm down a little bit and I can do this. You feel so much better.

  [01:09:07] RJ Smith: Exactly. Yes. And, and I still, I keep it professional, but it's interesting when you look at the Hartford Business Review and any type of like out outlet for professionals, they say that people hire.

  [01:09:21] RJ Smith: Those that they know and that they like. And if yes, and if you're a person of color being interviewed by someone that is culturally different than, than you, maybe a different gender than you, maybe older

  [01:09:34] Dr. Jill Baker: or younger. Different sexual orientation. Exactly.

  [01:09:38] RJ Smith: Right. There could be a unconscious bias of bias. Oh, well this is not someone I would have a drink with.

  [01:09:45] Dr. Jill Baker: Oh, I'm not comfortable. Right. I couldn't go to a happy hour with that or whatever. Exactly. Or couldn't go go to dinner with that person or whatever the

  [01:09:51] RJ Smith: Oh, ok. Right. So I, so this especially upset me because I have been the black woman at the table that put my, you know, a tough hand down on the table and said, no, we're gonna, we're gonna bring this back, this person back in.

  [01:10:09] RJ Smith: And if they don't, you know, pass, or if they don't do the case study, then

  [01:10:13] Dr. Jill Baker: fine. I've been on several, not several, cuz I have a 23 year experience, academia research, all, you know, so many places I've been on. Yeah. It's always it's hard already to be the one, like, we have to do something different or you have to change the interview questions or you have to look at different qualifications.

  [01:10:33] Dr. Jill Baker: Stop saying that people of color, you know, don't have the qualifications for this job. Correct. Correct. No.

  [01:10:42] RJ Smith: And it's a just stop. It's,

  [01:10:44] Dr. Jill Baker: it's, let's ask some different

  [01:10:45] RJ Smith: questions. Well, it's a bias because here's the thing that upsets me. So I'm on the board for addressing,

  [01:10:51] Dr. Jill Baker: but you know, we always have to have 200% more anyway.

  [01:10:55] Dr. Jill Baker: Correct? Correct. It's already not an even, oh, I can't just have Oh. Two degrees,

  [01:11:01] RJ Smith: so I gotta have four. Okay. Correct, correct.

  [01:11:04] Dr. Jill Baker: And people, real talk is the truth. It's,

  [01:11:08] RJ Smith: well, well, here's the thing that I've observed. So I serve on the Board of Dress for Success, Northern New Jersey. I love the mission of Dress for Success.

  [01:11:18] RJ Smith: It's all about women who are either unemployed or underemployed, getting the career skills and interviewing skills they need to find better employment and to have economic freedom. I, I don't think it's, I think most people know that is an organization that is heavily led by women that happen to be white.

  [01:11:41] RJ Smith: And so when I'm around women that are of non-color, right, and we're talking about careers and some of the things that they've done, they're like, there's a quickness to talk about. Oh yeah. And I was able to talk about my transferable skills and I was able to, you know, articulate how this experience would help me.

  [01:12:03] RJ Smith: In this other functional area, even though I had not worked in that type of area before. So I have picked up those things from just engaging with other culture. They just know the language. They know. They know the language. They know the language. Whereas men, many of us are not being properly mentored.

  [01:12:21] RJ Smith: And you know what? Right, exactly. We're not. Right. We're not. And for myself, I actually went through a phase of diversity fatigue because there was, there were so many people and people. That's a real thing. It is. Because if you are the person that cares enough to say something, then you become, and you're holding the torch.

  [01:12:43] RJ Smith: You become the go-to and

  [01:12:44] Dr. Jill Baker: And you're the one that has to be vocal at all the meetings. Correct. And all the interviews and all the hiring, you know, committee, 200 meetings.

  [01:12:53] RJ Smith: Correct. I mean, there was time. That's a lot. I wanted to leave early or I had something else to do, or I hadn't had my lunch yet, or I hadn't had my coffee.

  [01:13:03] RJ Smith: But if HR or someone put time on my calendar to talk about diversity or to ask my opinion about something because they recognized I might have a different perspective and that I was gonna give them a real answer. Right, exactly. I went to that meeting. So the fact that, number one, I'm being called a misogynist while my legs are in the air and I have a speculum in me when I have given up time.

  [01:13:32] RJ Smith: Money, blood, sweat, and tears to make, you know, any company that I was a part of, more diverse to serve on dress for success, I even used to have clothing drives for women that did not have interview attire. And that's so important, right? And yes, and like took like, like loaded up my car to the point I didn't have any rear view sight.

  [01:13:58] RJ Smith: Like I shouldn't have been driving with that many bags of clothes in my car, but I felt like I had to do it so that these women I love that could be able to provide, provide so important for themselves. And while I am, I'm sitting on an exam table in stirrups, you know, in this cold room while this person is touching my body and gonna say to me, well, you know, you do know you don't have to be a man in order to be a misogynist.

  [01:14:27] RJ Smith: When all I was asking about was fibroids and chemical relaxers, like, it, it's not, that response was not worthy.

  [01:14:36] Dr. Jill Baker: We should be, that should, we should be talking about in a, in a gyn annual appointment.

  [01:14:44] RJ Smith: Well, you know what's so funny? Well it's not funny. It's actually sad. Someone about that specific part of the story.

  [01:14:52] RJ Smith: The reason they felt that what happened to me was because of the color of my skin. It was like her arrogance of, oh, you know, my people are so stupid. They're always saying these stupid things that don't, that aren't even true. And that's why she felt she could talk to me like that. So it's, it's, I've gotten, so I've gotten feedback and insight from people at different ends of the spectrum.

  [01:15:15] RJ Smith: So on one,

  [01:15:15] Dr. Jill Baker: you've gotten insight from other doc, from other doctors. Exactly. And exactly who said, well, there are a lot of doctors that are think that that's how they operate. That's how they treat their patients and that's how they talk. And Yes, and we know that that's true, but that doesn't mean that,

  [01:15:38] RJ Smith: right.

  [01:15:39] RJ Smith: And here's the thing. I have that it's ok, it's not ok. It's not okay. It's, it's total disrespect in an environment where you, you want a level of respect that you are not giving to the person that's paying you. Cause let's be clear, these appointments are not free. Free. And it's a paying

  [01:15:55] Dr. Jill Baker: service. That

  [01:15:56] RJ Smith: part too.

  [01:15:57] RJ Smith: Right? I go to work and I pay into the benefits program in order for you to get paid. And this is the treatment.

  [01:16:11] Dr. Jill Baker: This just makes me so mad. But this is, this is important that. Everyone hear hears this experience,

  [01:16:18] RJ Smith: right? So my, you're asking me if my sister is black, right? You've, you've called me a misogynist, you've suggested that I would have a random one night stand with a stranger. So I need to get an i u d even though I'm not sexually active.

  [01:16:35] Dr. Jill Baker: And we also don't know, like, like you said, like, you know how people are with their, you know, racial identity and where they fall, you know what I'm saying? So it's, we give people, we think automatically people will, I guess we'll be on the

  [01:16:50] RJ Smith: same, you would think

  [01:16:51] Dr. Jill Baker: page or, but that's not what happens all the time.

  [01:16:56] Dr. Jill Baker: And I guess especially when they're in positions of, of author of high authority and power.

  [01:17:04] RJ Smith: Right. I think she has some internalized racism and misogyny towards herself. Yes. That's clear. It's very clear. Cuz you, you, you're yelling and shouting and waving around instruments, stomping your feet, talking about misogyny and woman bashing.

  [01:17:20] RJ Smith: But you have no consideration for me as a woman that's here getting an exam.

  [01:17:33] RJ Smith: Are you able to hear me? Yep. Okay. Yeah, you know what? You froze. So I don't know. I didn't know if the whole thing froze. So you're upset about woman bashing and misogyny. And, but you're, you're not paying me any respect as I'm in this vulnerable position. Right. Me having my body examine, examine in the room.

  [01:17:54] RJ Smith: Yeah. In the room. Right. And you're touching my body. So the lasting impact, it's like, it's like being molested. It's like a rape. It's a, it

  [01:18:01] Dr. Jill Baker: doesn't, it doesn't go away. No. It, it won't go away. No.

  [01:18:05] RJ Smith: That's another part of it. No, it won't go away. And things trigger me. I had a girlfriend who was in the Hospi Hospital last week the day before.

  [01:18:14] RJ Smith: I think we were scheduled for another time. That's right. That's right. And she had, I had called her cuz she was in the hospital and get the, this is, this is the part that sent me over the edge. The doctor was a white male doctor who came into the room and he was shouting about how he has so many patients and her son, who happens to be a nurse practitioner, said, let's talk about protocol.

  [01:18:38] RJ Smith: You're never supposed to talk about how many other patients you have and all these other x y thing, XYZ things that you said. Do you know that white male apologized to my friend on the spot? Wow. And this black woman can't even pick up the phone. Right. Or return my letter to say, you know, I am so sorry.

  [01:19:01] RJ Smith: That's not what I meant. Oh, that's, you did write a letter. I did write a letter. I was having a bad day. My dog died. I burnt the toast. I burnt the egg. And so it's the contrast that, oh my God, maybe I would've been better off going to a white male OBGYN than someone who's from my own culture. Yeah. At least this white male in the friend of my case last week, recognized on the spot that he was wrong and was compelled to apologize.

  [01:19:38] RJ Smith: I love it.

  [01:19:38] Dr. Jill Baker: I love that. But the thing is, you know, you have to take some, give yourself grace because you didn't know. And the rea the sad. I mean, the reality is that anytime we go to any doctor, we dunno what we're gonna get.

  [01:19:57] RJ Smith: I'll never ever go to a medical appointment by myself again. Yes, I have not had medical exams or attention other than my routine dental visits since this happened.

  [01:20:13] RJ Smith: Im horrified. The thought of having to be in that vulnerable space again, upsets me. Even I think there's a movie that came out this year, a documentary called Aftershock that talks about black maternal health. And

  [01:20:29] Dr. Jill Baker: shout out to my brother, Amari Maynard and Dr. Neil Shah, who's gonna be on season one of this show.

  [01:20:38] Dr. Jill Baker: I just talked to him. Couple weeks. Yep. Couple weeks

  [01:20:42] RJ Smith: ago. Yep. More than one friend who knew about my experience told me, Rosalyn, do not watch aftershock. Do not wait until you are stronger. Stronger, yes. Until you're in a better place. And you know what? It's true. Cuz even, even if I see, so did you, have you watched?

  [01:21:03] RJ Smith: Never. No, I haven't. I haven't. Cause I'm yet, I'm afraid of being triggered. Don't, I mean, if you'll be triggered, if you'll be triggered. If the doctor apologizing this white male doctor apologizing to my friend and she's just telling me about it was enough to send me over, then

  [01:21:19] Dr. Jill Baker: I, yes. You can't, you can't listen to No.

  [01:21:23] Dr. Jill Baker: The men in

  [01:21:25] RJ Smith: No, not only only get this, you're not gonna believe this part I have. You all can't see me, but I got a blowout this morning and my hair is in a duby and in New York. Yep. We have hot 97 power 1 0 5 and all that. So when I got to my 7:30 AM hair appointment, yes. I go that early. That's smart.

  [01:21:49] RJ Smith: You won't have to wait.

  [01:21:50] RJ Smith: The, the radio host, they were joking about whether they feel more comfortable with male doctors or female doctors. So while I'm sitting and waiting for my stylist, Yeah, I almost started crying. Oh, Rosalyn, I, cause I, I can't, and mind you, I had just gotten like some grits. I'm sitting down, I'm about to have my salmon cake and grits.

  [01:22:18] RJ Smith: I'm about to get my hair done. It's my birthday in two days. My stylist is so cool. Happy, barely birthday. Thank you. Thank you. And over the speaker hearing this dialogue about them talking about male or female doctors and why, and the man, the male host was being so crude and saying, yeah, because I don't like my package.

  [01:22:41] RJ Smith: I don't want any female seeing my package or talking about me. And then she, he said to the female host, I can't believe you go to a male gyn. I don't get, I don't get it. Do you just strut in there? And so they were talking about it in such a lighthearted way. Yes. Right. I post a very crude way, but for someone like me, I walked into one of those appointments, I was very vulnerable.

  [01:23:07] RJ Smith: I didn't have any hangups about doctors. And now I do. And it's to the point where I almost started crying, walking to the sink to get my hair washed. Right. Because I did, I was not expecting that to come up. How could

  [01:23:23] Dr. Jill Baker: I? Right, right, right, right. So are you talking to someone to help you with your Oh, I, you know, your PTSD and your,

  [01:23:35] RJ Smith: I'm getting all the help I can get.

  [01:23:36] RJ Smith: Okay, good. Good.

  [01:23:37] Dr. Jill Baker: No, seriously, I, yeah, I have to make sure that you are, because this is going to be a, a lifelong

  [01:23:44] RJ Smith: journey. Yeah. That it's a scar. It's a, its such a deep scar and it's, and it's sad because before my appointment I wasn't having sex. And I'm not having sex now because honestly, I don't even feel comfortable being that vulnerable.

  [01:24:03] RJ Smith: Oh gosh. It was to the point that there was a professional man that was really interested in me and we were dating, and I just, I couldn't sleep with him. And it's not because I wasn't attracted. It was not because I didn't feel a connection, it was just the, I said to him, I kept saying to him without telling him actually what happened.

  [01:24:29] RJ Smith: I kept saying, no, I just need to know that I'm safe. I just need to know that I'm safe. And he was saying, well, that's understandable. That's understandable. Without knowing the story. And so it has even impacted me in that regard where, you know, it's not, in this day and age to think that you would have to date someone and that you can't be sexually intimate is gonna make.

  [01:24:55] RJ Smith: It's gonna make the dating process a little bit more challenging. Yes. Right, right. And that's where I'm, I was before and you're 30. Exactly. Exactly. 30. Right, exactly. And I live in New York City. I'm single, and it

  [01:25:08] Dr. Jill Baker: should be, you should be able, as long as you're being healthy and you're protecting and, and you're communicate, you know what I'm saying?

  [01:25:16] Dr. Jill Baker: With whoever the, the people are that you choose to

  [01:25:18] RJ Smith: be with, can't do it. Can't do. And, and then the next person, like that

  [01:25:23] Dr. Jill Baker: shouldn't be taken away from

  [01:25:25] RJ Smith: you. I was, I was robbed of that. And the, the next gentleman that I had met, also professional, both of these men are also bankers. So it's like, these would've been men in my industry that would understand me, would understand my work environment.

  [01:25:41] RJ Smith: I understand them. We had worked, some of us had worked for like the same companies at different times. So we had this really cool bond of being these few black people on Wall Street. Right. Very few that have made it. And, and I'm putting that in air quotes that have made it because of my definition has of success has changed as a result of this experience.

  [01:26:03] RJ Smith: But we'll get there. So as the, these people have made it, I'm like, oh, these would be my matches. These would be the men that I could have long-term partnerships because potentially, potentially, because they're not. Intimidated by my career. They know what it is. Mm. Actually, one of them was so much further along than me in my career.

  [01:26:25] RJ Smith: He could have been a partner and a mentor. Oh wow. Oh wow, wow. And so the second guy that I was dating and who wanted to be intimate, I just, I started crying and couldn't go through with it. I just couldn't. And it was sad. It, it was just so sad to, to be in that place. And, and the thing is, I got to this place from going to an annual well woman exam.

  [01:26:56] RJ Smith: It's not like I went home with somebody after the club and then yeah. Three people were right. This is not, this is not precious. This is not players club. Like, that's not my life. Right. So the fact that this happened because I was proactive about my health, your health, and I trusted someone who's culturally her cultural identity.

  [01:27:23] RJ Smith: She's a black female, cisgender woman of Jamaican descent. Who's, who mirrors me in so many different ways. And this is what happened. And this is what has robbed me of my joy. I mean, to be in a place where I am, to be a senior vice president, to be the hiring manager, to be the person that flies overseas, to give raises to people.

  [01:27:48] RJ Smith: And, and my friend said this to me, she's like, Rosalyn, I'm upset for you because it's like, you can't even enjoy the success that you worked for. You worked so hard for her. Right. And I said to her, I said, I no longer define success the same way because I have, in my outward world, people will look at me, they'll look at my purse or my shades or you know, and now it's cold.

  [01:28:14] RJ Smith: I, and I, I'm obsessed with fur, you know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. If there's any vegans, and I know you're Buddhist and so I know there's a lot of vegans out there, but, and she has a

  [01:28:24] Dr. Jill Baker: beautiful Buddhist Buddha picture in the back, you know? And when I saw her, I said, lemme guess where you got that picture from?

  [01:28:33] Dr. Jill Baker: I said, did you get that from Ross? And she was like, yep. I was like, Ross always has the best

  [01:28:40] RJ Smith: They do. They do pictures of Buddha. Yeah, they do. But it was so funny. But see, but here's the thing.

  [01:28:47] Dr. Jill Baker: But no, she's absolutely right. She's absolutely right. Yeah. Yes.

  [01:28:51] RJ Smith: Here's the thing that's crazy. There's two sides to this coin.

  [01:28:54] RJ Smith: On one hand, because I am a professional black woman that can get on a flight and go cry on the beach somewhere with a pina colada, that made some people not feel bad for me. So what? And there are some people that are no longer a part of my life, and a good friend called it out. She said, some people weren't happy for you and are glad to see you go through something that would bring you down to size or that would make you more relatable.

  [01:29:29] RJ Smith: So seeing you in this broken state feeds them. Because before on the outside, it looked like everything was okay. And I said, but I have problems. I was homeless when I went to college. I put myself through school. I worked during the day, and I went to school at night. It wasn't an easy thing to me. And she's like, it doesn't matter.

  [01:29:50] RJ Smith: They didn't know you when you were in your aunt's shop serving, not you, Siri. Siri was Siri's trying to interrupt. She was like, they didn't know you. Say that again.

  [01:30:08] Dr. Jill Baker: Siri is really trying to be

  [01:30:10] RJ Smith: on this show. Siri. Siri. Siri wants his day. Let me stop saying Siri.

  [01:30:17] RJ Smith: Okay. We might be safe now. So this friend said they didn't know you when you were warming up Cocoa bread and serving it to people who weren't happy. Cuz a lot of Jamaicans that came in there, they were not happy. It didn't matter whether you were quick or slow, like

  [01:30:31] Dr. Jill Baker: this is not authentic. Yeah. Beef pads and coco bread.

  [01:30:34] Dr. Jill Baker: Right?

  [01:30:34] RJ Smith: Yeah. I was, when I say I was in a Jamaican shop, I'm talking about No, I know exactly. You know what, like one time someone came in there and they didn't point to what they wanted, they just used their whole body and they said Star and they put their head up saying Star. And I was like, sir, how may I help you?

  [01:30:53] RJ Smith: And he said it again and he moved his body again. And when I looked above my head, it was the star Gleaner newspaper. He was there to buy the Jamaican newspaper. Oh wow. But he's a lot of, in that culture, you don't point with your finger or your hand, you kind of gesture with your whole body and kind of your, you lead with your nose what, what you're trying to point to.

  [01:31:14] RJ Smith: So, so I worked in a. Real Jamaican restaurant. And she said

  [01:31:18] Dr. Jill Baker: that, but the truth is, you shouldn't have to prove yourself, prove anything to anybody, but whoever is not on your team or is not for you, it doesn't, those people are not

  [01:31:28] RJ Smith: for you. Period. But see, I didn't know that they weren't for me and because, but you know, it

  [01:31:32] Dr. Jill Baker: takes, it takes a while to, that's, you know, growing up and the older you get, I think you, you kind of figured that out.

  [01:31:40] Dr. Jill Baker: Like, yeah, there's other people that are, for me, this is, and usually it is experiences like these, these horrific triggering experiences where you really see where the chips fall and you see, see how people operate or how they, their responses for things. And then you're like, whoa, wow. Oh,

  [01:32:01] RJ Smith: oh, wait

  [01:32:01] Dr. Jill Baker: till I get, you're not on my team.

  [01:32:02] Dr. Jill Baker: You're not on my team. Ok. The

  [01:32:03] RJ Smith: responses, I got mixed responses that have completely shifted. No.

  [01:32:08] Dr. Jill Baker: Cause we talked about that for a lot

  [01:32:09] RJ Smith: too. Right, right, right. And you're right, I don't have to prove, but it, it's interesting in our community, some of these people that this friend was referring to, I had felt, grew up better than I did.

  [01:32:23] RJ Smith: You know, because, oh, they had two parents and they could go to school full-time because their parents had the 5 29 account. And I was just this person with an immigrant family that had to work and go to school at night and was homeless, getting through school. So,

  [01:32:43] RJ Smith: A family you've came from what I'm trying to create now for my children now. Exactly. Now. Right. Exactly. Now to think that you had an issue with me because of what you perceived my life to be and not the reality I overcame is sad that you are taking joy and these are other black people, but mind you, that are taking joy in this tragedy that has happened to me.

  [01:33:11] RJ Smith: And whoever,

  [01:33:11] Dr. Jill Baker: they're, they're just not for you. No. They're not on your team. No. But you now, you know who's

  [01:33:19] RJ Smith: on your team. I do. I do. And I got all kinds of feedback. Like I had get this, I had someone I had dated who was a journalist, I had asked him, I said, would you be willing to help write about my story or refer to you know, other writers?

  [01:33:39] RJ Smith: Because he went to the Columbia School of Journalism. Ok. And this was someone Yeah. That I was very close to. And even though we weren't in a relationship anymore, we maintained the friendship. And he told me I needed to get the F over it. And that f up things happen all the time. And that there's a lot of people seeking justice for a get this, this is the part that is like insane.

  [01:34:09] RJ Smith: Or he's been trying to pitch to different publishers is about activism in the nba. So you are writing about a black athletes, cuz we're talking about nba, that's a, a very black athletic or organization. Yes. You're talking about how they responded to George Floyd and other activism in the world of sports with, you know, black Lives Matter and so forth.

  [01:34:35] RJ Smith: Right here, I've gone through this experience. I wrote letters about it, I've blogged about it. You know, I've out here in the community talking about it to empower other women and I'm asking you for help and you are saying get the f over it. There's a lot of people seeking justice for a lot of things.

  [01:34:55] RJ Smith: And I started crying and I said, but I feel like I was raped. Gosh, I feel like I was raped. And I said, I mean essentially. And yes, right. And he said, stop crying if you feel like you were raped, then go to the precinct. What? Yep, yep, yep. And that is someone that I had been in a relationship Oh, oh my God.

  [01:35:20] RJ Smith: For, for multiple years. So if anyone, you would expect that from

  [01:35:24] Dr. Jill Baker: somebody that you just met or. Not

  [01:35:28] RJ Smith: somebody that you, oh, it gets better. It gets better. When I was working in the retail bank experience in like back office, I had a colleague who's now my friend in real life whose husband went to the Columbia School of Journalism a few years prior to this person.

  [01:35:48] RJ Smith: I, my friend was trying to help me by introducing her husband to the man I was dating at the time, because he mentors other people who graduate from that program. Okay, got it. So it was nothing for me to open up my, expose my professional network for you to meet a potential mentor that you should've already known based on the fact that you went through the same graduate program.

  [01:36:17] RJ Smith: And I did it, you know, just so easily, oh, like of course I wanna help you. And I went through something like this and to you, it doesn't matter, but you wanna sell books about basketball players and how they responded to George Floyd. So is it because I'm a woman? A woman, right. Because do black women, because

  [01:36:38] Dr. Jill Baker: you, you, you know that what they have had to endure to make Black Lives Matter stick and for people to really get it and understand it.

  [01:36:51] Dr. Jill Baker: And some players messed up their careers.

  [01:36:54] RJ Smith: Correct? Correct. But you don't view my activism as worthwhile as you view that one. Like you missed an opportunity to be of something, be a

  [01:37:07] Dr. Jill Baker: part, but maybe because it's not an acute, not, I'm sorry, not saying cute, but in a easy package. Correct.

  [01:37:15] RJ Smith: You know what I'm saying?

  [01:37:17] RJ Smith: Correct. And in theory

  [01:37:20] Dr. Jill Baker: you have, cause now, now everybody knows about

  [01:37:23] RJ Smith: Black Lives Matter, everyone knows about, but you could have been at the beginning,

  [01:37:27] Dr. Jill Baker: 10, 12 years ago.

  [01:37:29] RJ Smith: No, exactly. Exactly right. And he in theory would have the network to help me get it out there, even if it Right. It's your story out there.

  [01:37:41] RJ Smith: Right. Even if it wasn't through a major publication, even if it was through someone that he went to school with that owned a blog or their own platform. And the fact that he wouldn't lift a finger when I had so openly shared my professional network to help him. It's just interesting when we talk about racism and misogyny.

  [01:38:04] RJ Smith: So it's like, wait a minute, I'm going through these things. I'm experiencing it in corporate America. I'm experiencing it in intimate relationships, and this black woman is stomping her feet. Talking about I don't have to be a man to be a misogynist. Right, right. When I'm living the experience of a cisgender black woman in America, who are you talking to?

  [01:38:29] RJ Smith: Right,

  [01:38:29] Dr. Jill Baker: right, right. Wow. So he, this guy,

  [01:38:34] RJ Smith: wow. Yeah. So I had to, wow. I had to remove him completely from my life. Yes. There are people, thank goodness I grew up with that are no longer a part of my life. There are, oh, get this, because I was the friend that had a good job. There are people I've helped in New York who were about to get evicted who didn't have food.

  [01:38:56] RJ Smith: I, where I've loaned them the money to pay their rent, or I knew that they didn't have money. So if we went out to eat, I just picked up the bill because I, I didn't want them to feel like we couldn't hang out because they were going through a hard time. Yeah. Some of those same people have not even signed my petition.

  [01:39:16] RJ Smith: Oh, wow. Oh, that has to hurt. Oh, let me tell you something. I am, I am in a completely different dimension as a result of this experience, what I had to go through afterwards. I'll also, I want viewers to know the story about my aunt as well, who's a physician, you know, The thing that is so hard for me now is that I still love a community that may not have the capacity to show me love and return, because all I I, for the most part, outside of yourself and a few, like very few other black women, yeah.

  [01:40:01] RJ Smith: Most of the women that are pushing me to go forward are from other cultures and it hurts. Mm. Yeah. It hurts when your girlfriend that you go on trips with shoves you and says, you know, you just need to be done with this whole thing. You just need to walk away and be done with it, and literally shoves me.

  [01:40:20] RJ Smith: And then an Indian woman that you used to work for three years ago finds out, takes you to out to a $400 dinner, won't, won't let you pay any for anything because they know you have this case that you're working on and story that you need your money to help get it out there. And is gonna say, if your advocacy causes problems with your current company, call me.

  [01:40:50] RJ Smith: Mm. Yeah. Why? Why is the Indian woman showing up that way? And other black people are telling me to get the F over it or pushing me or I'll, we'll get into the fact that there was a blog where my petition got posted and there are people who. Got on there saying that the only reason I'm out here telling this story about the doctors is cause I'm mad that she's light-skinned.

  [01:41:17] RJ Smith: Oh yes, you told me that. Yeah. And the person also said things about my health that had not been included. And

  [01:41:26] Dr. Jill Baker: that is a, a HIPAA violation. Correct.

  [01:41:28] RJ Smith: So you, you have people that you're this doctor. So instead of just apologizing and owning your stuff, right, you're talking about my health to other people.

  [01:41:39] RJ Smith: And they're, and the conversation, the level of conversation that you're having with them makes them feel comfortable going online, saying that I'm doing this because she's light-skinned. No conversation about medical ethics, no conversation about humanity. No. Conversation about discrimination. And would she have told and woman, you don't have to worry about your fertility cause you're Irish told you.

  [01:42:07] RJ Smith: Right. You don't have to worry about your fertility because you are Romanian or Right German. But you felt comfortable saying that because I'm the black culture. Right. You don't wanna talk about that. You think I'm jealous because you're light skinned and you're looking at me on camera right now. I, I am unambiguous, but I'm also, to me, I'm not.

  [01:42:30] RJ Smith: I'm not extremely dark, so I don't understand that. And it,

  [01:42:33] Dr. Jill Baker: again, it does, it shouldn't matter. So, so this whole skin thing, whatever, this has to stop. Black women and black women, we got, we have to do better. Come on. Like, this could have happened to any of us. Period.

  [01:42:47] RJ Smith: And not only that, you know, one of the, the part of the exam that was really, well, a minute, but you remember

  [01:42:53] Dr. Jill Baker: what the first thing I said to you at the end of our first conversation when I said, are you going to go forward and share this story?

  [01:43:02] Dr. Jill Baker: Absolutely. And you, you said yes. And I said, you know, the fire is going to come.

  [01:43:06] RJ Smith: Definitely. I said something like

  [01:43:08] Dr. Jill Baker: that. You do. But I was like, but I'll be here with you along the way. Oh, I, but the shots are coming. It's coming.

  [01:43:18] RJ Smith: I have, there's no guarantee. I have walked the polls. I, yes. Now did

  [01:43:23] Dr. Jill Baker: I think that this, would it be these things you are

  [01:43:26] RJ Smith: telling me Oh yeah.

  [01:43:28] RJ Smith: That people would be talking about shooting me on the internet? No, no, I didn't. No, no. I definitely didn't think that. But you know what, what? See this is what's sad. What's sad about this is when I have a Jewish female mentor, and I mentioned this in passing, this white woman took it upon herself to Google me, found what they were saying about my health.

  [01:43:56] RJ Smith: And mind you, she's a retired nurse. She was so angry. She got someone, a friend of hers that's an attorney to reach out to the website and make them take it down. That's

  [01:44:09] Dr. Jill Baker: right. You told me that. And they took it down

  [01:44:11] RJ Smith: and they took it down. Took it down, right. Yeah. So it's just like, while other black people in my circle, it was entertainment.

  [01:44:22] RJ Smith: And it's interesting when we think about things that have happened recently, whether it's the trial with Megan and Thee Stallion, her being shot, whether it's what's going on with Megan Markle and the media and the documentary that just came out, whether it's Shanquila Robinson who was jumped by her so-called friends, you know, on a trip.

  [01:44:41] RJ Smith: I, I can't get over

  [01:44:42] Dr. Jill Baker: that. I can't get over that. That I can't even get over that. I can't get That's really troubling me. It's really troubling

  [01:44:47] RJ Smith: me. W Well, what has troubled me about my story and getting it out there is the way that some of our people have responded to it in a way that that is more like voyeurism than concerned.

  [01:45:03] RJ Smith: Yeah. Right. And we see that that same pattern of behavior, whether it's worldstar and some of these fight videos. Right. Right. Or the fact that I think Megan is more on trial than Tori Lanes, the person that pulled the gun trigger. So this voyeurism of, we have normalized the abuse of black women, these interactions, right?

  [01:45:24] RJ Smith: Correct. And then we've, and when we shouldn't exactly. Exactly. So we have to, we have

  [01:45:31] Dr. Jill Baker: to be here for each other. Right. And lift each other up when we have these exper,

  [01:45:38] RJ Smith: that's it. Oh. But it gets so much worse. It gets so, so my aunt is a physician, and when I say aunt, I'm talking about we have the same last name.

  [01:45:48] RJ Smith: Same last name, because she is a pro. Ok. That's important for people to know. Yeah. This is not some distant relative. We're not gonna say her, we're not gonna say her name. Name. We're not saying anybody name's, just say I'm talking about aunt as in her children are my first first cousins. Yes. My aunt

  [01:46:04] Dr. Jill Baker: Tee Tee that's here with me right

  [01:46:05] RJ Smith: now.

  [01:46:05] RJ Smith: Right. So in, when this happened and I told her about it, she acted like she was so upset and she told me a story about a white male Italian ob G Y n, that had treated her in an abusive manner. Back in, I wanna say it was either the seventies or the eighties New York. She was, you know, the experience was very difficult for her.

  [01:46:32] RJ Smith: She had graduated from med school and then went back and confronted the man in person. And when she showed up to confront him, because she had her, you know, she was a dec at this point, she was a decorated doctor or whatever. The man didn't remember what he had done to her. He assumed that she was one of his students when she came in.

  [01:46:57] RJ Smith: And then she's like, no, no, I'm not one of your students. I actually, I'm, I'm here to confront you about X, Y, Z. And that white Italian man wrote her a letter apologizing What he, for what he had done to her. Wow. So she got an apol. Yeah. Apology. But get this, get, this is what's crazy to me that happened to her when she was a teenager.

  [01:47:21] RJ Smith: So think about the time between being a teenager, graduating, going to college, then going to medical school, then finishing, you know, a residency and becoming a board certified doctor. Think about how many years had to have gone by and she still took it upon herself to go confront this man in person.

  [01:47:41] RJ Smith: Right? Right. But when this happened to me, she said, she said, well, all the hospital really cares about is whether or not you're gonna sue them and you're too young to be burning bridges. And I said, well, I'm not burning bridges. I mean, they burned a bridge with me. And she said, you're not that important.

  [01:48:03] RJ Smith: You're just one patient. And black patients are the worst. And they eat badly. That's why their health is bad. And so I said, auntie, so you, how can you say that? And you're a black woman and you're a doctor and you grew up in the Bronx and you went through this experience that I went to. And she said, well, it's hard.

  [01:48:22] RJ Smith: It's hard being a black doctor. You just leave these people alone, you know? And there's other OBGYNs out there that are doing things that are much worse. So Oh yeah,

  [01:48:35] Dr. Jill Baker: I remember. Yes, you told me

  [01:48:36] RJ Smith: that. Yes. Yeah, that came from my black aunt who was a physician who was credentialed

  [01:48:41] Dr. Jill Baker: in that. So has she, so that was a few months.

  [01:48:43] Dr. Jill Baker: So has her answer change? No. I've

  [01:48:47] RJ Smith: heard through other relatives that she has been speaking about me in a negative way because I submitted a complaint about a black doctor and it shouldn't matter. It, she was wrong. And you had enough clout within the area of medicine to really stand up for me. But instead you wanted to brown those and be chummy with the doctors at the hospital because you think me speaking out could ruin some type of network opportunity for you.

  [01:49:18] RJ Smith: So it's

  [01:49:18] Dr. Jill Baker: almost like a doctor protecting another doctor. Exactly.

  [01:49:22] RJ Smith: Yes. Right. And then you're saying things that are a reflection of internalized racism. Black patients are the worst and their health is bad because they eat badly. Stop social. Factors that determine one's health that impact a lot of black people and people of color.

  [01:49:41] RJ Smith: And it's the last time you looked at the American standard diet, diet

  [01:49:45] Dr. Jill Baker: access, no healthy stores in there. Grocery stores and neighborhoods. And

  [01:49:52] RJ Smith: Well, I tell you one thing, I work on Wall Street, no gyms. No, I know a lot of non-black people who eat poorly because Right. I walk by their desk every day. And

  [01:50:05] Dr. Jill Baker: it's not because they are inherently that way.

  [01:50:09] Dr. Jill Baker: There are so many other factors that sometimes

  [01:50:12] RJ Smith: when you're in those, those responsible for that. Right. You grab whatever lunch you can or whatever comforts you. Right. And before your next conference call or whatever. Right. And there you go. I know. And the thing is, I'm major, the O, one of the only black people I get to talk to on a regular basis right now out that isn't family or friends that I've known for a long time is someone that I helped get hired at the company where I am now.

  [01:50:38] RJ Smith: So it's like to be in these environments and see non-black people have unhealthy habits, unhealthy behaviors, but they're not, their image and reputation is not tainted by it in the same way we're just ready to crucify

  [01:50:56] Dr. Jill Baker: black people. Yes. Right. And criticize too much. Right, right. Exactly. Exactly. So for the sake of time, cause I, yeah, yeah.

  [01:51:07] Dr. Jill Baker: We're recording the day before. Yes. Cuz we had to get this done and Rosalyn has to Right. Hanging out with her mom today. And when is your, your birthday is coming up too, right? Yeah. Yes. It's the

  [01:51:18] RJ Smith: 25th actually. And I So your birthday is on Christmas. It's on Christmas.

  [01:51:25] Dr. Jill Baker: So I have to ask what my kids would ask.

  [01:51:27] Dr. Jill Baker: Do you get cheated out of gifts? You know what,

  [01:51:29] RJ Smith: I did to ask, not only that, one of my grandmothers was so religious, like she loved Jesus. Like, it was almost like sometimes you, like she loved Jesus to the point you raised an eyebrow. And so there were some birthdays where I know, I'm, I know I'm being silly.

  [01:51:50] RJ Smith: That's hilarious. There were some birthdays where she would go through the whole routine of going to church and we would have dinner and then by seven o'clock that night she'd be like, oh my gosh, R it's your birthday. But she had been so, you know, in the right, you know, the Jesus part of it that my birthday, it's hard to compete with jc.

  [01:52:12] RJ Smith: That's all I'm gonna say.

  [01:52:13] Dr. Jill Baker: Right.

  [01:52:16] RJ Smith: And it makes me, I, me, it, me. But, you know, this experience has made me appreciate my mother more because when I was a teenager, I found a diary of herds. Wow. And I read her diary where she was talking about her experience having my younger sister and that the labor had progressed so quickly that when she got to the hospital they wouldn't give her an epidural.

  [01:52:44] RJ Smith: And do you know how common that is? It is, but I view my mother differently because reading that as a teacher was, again, did she say she was in a lot of pain? Oh my God. She said she was in Yeah. Yes, yes, yes. Pain. And that she was even in pain after she gave birth and that Yes. Right. And she's, and that she says she's fortunate that she had had three children prior to kind of, at least she knew what was happening to expect.

  [01:53:09] RJ Smith: Right? Right. And she had delivered all of her children, like by pushing. So, but I, after going through this experience, I thought back to that timeframe of when I read her diary. I never told her that I read it. And my, me and my mom, we have had a very complicated, difficult relationship. Yeah. And there was a time when we were estranged and when I look at that story and what I've been through, I wonder how she felt being in pain and then trying to tell her she can't get anything for her pain.

  [01:53:48] RJ Smith: And my father having to leave the room and her being with those. Medical professionals being by herself.

  [01:53:55] Dr. Jill Baker: By herself. Cause there's a point that you're probably by yourself.

  [01:53:59] RJ Smith: I, I tell you this, I felt for her and I haven't brought it up to her yet. I haven't even told her about this situation just yet.

  [01:54:08] RJ Smith: You haven't told your mother? I haven't told her yet. Cuz you know what? We have been rebuilding our relationship. Yeah. Yeah. And I think this level of pain that I went through has helped me to maybe give her more grace because she's someone who struggled with substance abuse, which is why we were estranged to begin with.

  [01:54:26] RJ Smith: Ok. Ok. And so, right. And that's, so

  [01:54:29] Dr. Jill Baker: did my father succeed? That's

  [01:54:32] RJ Smith: another thing. Well, and that's another reason why I felt shocked that people weren't happy for me when I overcame having a

  [01:54:44] RJ Smith: parent's, but

  [01:54:49] RJ Smith: pain that I've gone through as a result of this experience. I understand why somebody would do drugs. Cause I can't say I didn't think about it. Oh, oh my God, that is how far down this took me. Oh God. And the, but that's a real feeling. And, and you know what? And the only reason I didn't was because my square behind didn't know where to get

  [01:55:12] Dr. Jill Baker: him.

  [01:55:14] Dr. Jill Baker: And that's a real answer.

  [01:55:15] RJ Smith: That's a real answer. Imagine this little Black Valley girl that works in the bank. Very, very square. I'm trying to go outside, but see, I'm, I'm the type of black girl that it would be my first trying, but goodness, I

  [01:55:31] Dr. Jill Baker: It would be justified. It would be. And no one can say that. It wouldn't be justified if you did go

  [01:55:38] RJ Smith: that route.

  [01:55:39] RJ Smith: Well, ok. It, it was very tempting because I, but here's the thing. If I went and did that, it would end up being an undercover cop. I would not have known the signs I would get to the court. Well then

  [01:55:51] Dr. Jill Baker: no, then it would've been like you were doing that before this whole thing started. You know, that, that's what it would've been.

  [01:55:57] Dr. Jill Baker: Right.

  [01:55:57] RJ Smith: That pro that's probably true too. They probably would've used that. No, it's all

  [01:56:01] Dr. Jill Baker: with all protections. It's, no, thank goodness you did not do that and go down that route to, to deal with this very, very tragic, tragic event.

  [01:56:12] RJ Smith: No, I'm, I'm in therapy folks. I'm, I'm in therapy. Yes.

  [01:56:15] And

  [01:56:16] Dr. Jill Baker: I engage to therapy 200 times a day and Yes.

  [01:56:19] Dr. Jill Baker: Yes. Yeah. Yes. So, so with all of this, all of this, is there anything, so the, the last question, and we will have follow up discussions of course, about this, but is there anything you want to share with the audience that you. You know regarding reproductive injustices and the current state of infertility and maternal health injustices in, in this country.

  [01:56:53] Dr. Jill Baker: Is there an anything? And if you're not, that's a fair answer. There's two fair answer to,

  [01:57:00] RJ Smith: I have two, two hopes. Number one, I hope that by sharing my story, that other women have the courage to come forward and talk about their experiences because, you know, this is actually a global problem. If you were to google obstetric and gynecological violence, you'll see women in other countries have had issues.

  [01:57:23] RJ Smith: I, on my blog, yes, it's, I have posted some legal opinions about obstetric and gynecological violence. And my hope is that by sharing my story and continuing to build on this momentum and elevate other voices, that I can create the wave for some type of legislation to protect women. Because when these things happen, the, the main obstacle is that women are not able to get an attorney to even take their case.

  [01:57:52] RJ Smith: Take their case, right? Cause it's not something written in law that has punitive damages. So I think for obstetric and gynecological violence, there should be punitive damages written into law. That's number. Here's the thing, if I could talk directly to the doctor that had did this to me, I would say that I am not against you.

  [01:58:22] RJ Smith: All I asked you for was an apology, and if at any point you reach out to me, we could turn this thing around and set an example for other black women about how to handle conflict, how to handle disagreement, how to proceed when there's been a violation. If you just reached out and humbled yourself, we could completely turn around the narrative.

  [01:58:51] RJ Smith: But as long as you're trying to preserve your image and not owning what you did, all you're doing is perpetuating something negative about us and you're not living the values that you claim to care about. If you care about women and you're so against misogyny and you're so against woman bashing, then step up to the plate because we could make this into a positive thing.

  [01:59:18] RJ Smith: And I think because my story is so out there now, and it's on social media and other people right know about it, if she just came to the table and said, you know what? How about we work together instead of against each other? And not make this an adversarial thing, then I think we would be setting an example as opposed to perpetuating a stereotype that we can't get along.

  [01:59:44] Dr. Jill Baker: I love that. I love that. And I'm so happy and grateful that you, you still have some hope that you think is, is there even in, in the midst of this recent tragic experience that still breaks my heart that you had. But thank you so much for sharing your story with me and sharing your story with the world.

  [02:00:11] Dr. Jill Baker: Thank you all for tuning into the show this week. And I'd like to thank my guest, Ms. Rosalyn j Smith once more for joining us today and sharing her story and her knowledge with us. Rosalyn, let the listeners know how they can find you and connect with

  [02:00:29] RJ Smith: you. Sure thing. I have a new platform.

  [02:00:32] RJ Smith: It's called the Iron Bit. So if you go to the Iron Bit com there's different ways to get in contact with me, whether it's postal mail, whether it's email, whether it's subscribing to my blog and, and actually if you have a story where you've had an, an abusive experience with a doctor or any kind of medical provider, I would say reach out to me on the Iron bit.com and I'm willing to help you process that or channel maybe that, that energy you have around your experience into something creative that you can share with the world.

  [02:01:09] RJ Smith: So the Iron bit.com.

  [02:01:13] Dr. Jill Baker: Thank you Rosalyn for sharing that with the guest. And for everyone else, you can find Maternal Health 9 1 1 podcast on all platforms where you listen to podcasts and maternal health 9 1 1 on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Feel free DM me with your questions and thoughts or to share your fertility in maternal health story.

  [02:01:36] Dr. Jill Baker: And for more information on your podcast hosts, please visit ww dot dr joe baker.com. If you're listening on Apple Podcast or iTunes, please rate and leave me a review as I take the feedback that you provide seriously. So thank you to everyone for listening to the show today, and until next time, take care and be safe.

  [02:02:04] RJ Smith: 3, 2, 1.

  [02:02:06] Dr. Jill Baker: Yeah. Thank you for listening to this episode of Maternal Health 9 1 1. Please follow the show on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Feel free to DM me with your questions and thoughts or to share your infertility, fertility, and maternal health story. For more information on this podcast and your host, visit ww dot dr joe baker.com listening to the show on Apple Podcast.

  [02:02:31] Dr. Jill Baker: Please rate and review it. It really helps the show and the feedback is welcome.

BIPOC Women face Injustice and Infertility Disparities in New York City
The statistics are alarming: Black mothers are twelve times more likely to die than White mothers. In this episode, Rosly recounts her personal struggles in dealing with dismissive healthcare professionals, insults, and inappropriate conversations. She questions if the issue lies more with elitism and classism than outright racism, as these societal "isms" often intersect.

Infertility affects millions of women and their partners in the US, with Black women being twice as likely as White women to suffer from it. This contradicts the myth of Black hyper-fertility that still exists in both society and the Black community.

The following data was gathered from the CDC:

• Infertility affects 10% of women between the ages of 15 and 44 in the US.

• 7.4 million women and their partners in the US are affected by fertility-related issues.

• Black women are twice as likely as white women to suffer from infertility, whether it is primary or secondary infertility.

• These disparities are deeply concerning and require attention to ensure that BIPC women are given the same level of care and attention as their counterparts.

Guest Bio:

Roslyn J. Smith (She, Her, Hers)

​Digital Client Experience | Women's Empowerment Advocate| Content Creator

Roslyn is a New York City-based financial services executive who has specialized in digital client experience at Fortune 500 companies. She is a digital product owner by training that has excelled at turning retail banking consumer feedback into actionable insights, leading digital transformation through Agile methodology, and delivering executive-level communications to a global business audience. Her current focus is on providing technical functionality on asset management software for institutional investment banking clients.

Roslyn has championed diversity, equity, and inclusion throughout her career. She is responsible for implementing leadership development workshops to support women and underrepresented people in the refinement of their self-promotion skills through a partnership with Google’s #IamRemarkable initiative. Prior to entering the banking industry, she worked on several successful municipal, county, state, and federal election campaigns as Executive Director of the Essex County Democratic Committee.

When outside of the office she enjoys traveling and blending essential oils. She is always on the hunt for interesting podcasts and nursing a dependency on Audible. She serves on the board of Dress for Success Northern NJ, an organization dedicated to economically empowering women by providing the development tools to thrive in work and life.

Roslyn is a Rutgers-Newark University graduate with a Bachelor’s degree in Economics. She studied applied business analytics at Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) as well as Digital Marketing at Columbia University.

Learn more about Dr. Jill here.

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