Ep.11/ More Fathers, Less Problems: The Impact of Black Fathers On The Maternal Health Outcomes of BIPOC Women
EP.11/ More Fathers, Less Problems: The Impact of Black Fathers On The Maternal Health Outcomes of BIPOC Women with Joel Austin
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Note: This transcription has been created with a help of an AI thus errors and mistranscriptions may be present.
[00:00:00] Dr. Jill Baker: Hello,
[00:00:03] Joel Austin: nine's your emergency.
[00:00:08] Joel Austin: 1, 2,
[00:00:10] Dr. Jill Baker: 3, 4.
[00:00:14] Dr. Jill Baker: Hi, I'm Dr. Joe Baker. I'm a wife, a mother, a community health scholar and executive director and a fertility coach. More than 12 years ago, I was on my own infertility journey. Since then, I've made it my personal mission to help anyone who is on their own journey. To become a parent, as well as shed light on infertility and maternal health experiences of bipo women and couples.
[00:00:42] Dr. Jill Baker: Now let's begin this week's episode of Maternal Health 9 1 1.
[00:00:53] Dr. Jill Baker: Hello, everyone. And welcome to the listeners, my awesome listeners of Maternal Health 9 1 1 podcast. I am very excited to, I say that with every show, but I mean that with this show as well. But I'm very excited today for many reasons to talk to my guest today. He is a trailblazer. I just have to say that's the first thing that come, comes to my mind.
[00:01:21] Dr. Jill Baker: That he's a trailblazer. He is represents Philly all day. Philly, my second home, right? And we met each other, oh gosh, what maybe, what was it? 2014? 14, 20. No, no, no. 2015. 2015. When both of us were, , selected humbly as, as game changers in Philadelphia by by C B S for Black History Month.
[00:01:49] Dr. Jill Baker: For our commitment to work in Philadelphia and our work with, , communities that need support, Mr. Joelle Austin is the co-founder, president and Chief Executive Officer for Data University Incorporated, and he is the executive director of the School of Parent Education of 5 0 1 C three. In this role, he serves as a strong, undeniable force in propelling males and responsible parenting.
[00:02:18] Dr. Jill Baker: To the forefront of the family and community agenda, fueled by his role as a father of four and a father figure to seven. Mr. Austin is personally and professionally committed to educating and reeducating people about the importance of fatherhood. Through his leadership, daddy University Incorporated has grown into a recognized authority on fatherhood information support and training.
[00:02:45] Dr. Jill Baker: Mr. Austin is a proud graduate of Chaney University in Pennsylvania and obtained real life skills training as a veteran of the United States Army, he is recognized by his peers as a trailblazer in the field of fatherhood, and appreciated by young and more seasoned fathers for his authentic advice, compassionate wisdom, and contagious passion.
[00:03:07] Dr. Jill Baker: Among his many accomplishments, Mr. Austin is the founder of the 12th National Fatherhood and Young Men's Conference, whose message has reached over 58,500 individuals and groups since its inception in 2006. He is also the founder of the annual Daddy daughter Dance. In it's 11th year, it has become a tradition that changes the lives of families everywhere.
[00:03:33] Dr. Jill Baker: Mr. Austin is also the chief facilitator and developer for group. He is also the lead facilitator and program developer for the Parent Academy. A biweekly class held for all parents, and with all that, he still had time to somehow in 2019, he founded it. The Doulas for Dad program. Which has trained eight males to assist fathers in supporting new mothers and infants.
[00:04:06] Dr. Jill Baker: Always the visionary. Mr. Austin, in 2020 established the Delta Fraternity Incorporated. So all fathers of all ages and stages can come together and support each other. Lastly, Mr. Austin is one of the few certified master trainers of both the National Fatherhood Initiative curriculum as well as the MPC l Fatherhood Development Curriculum.
[00:04:30] Dr. Jill Baker: So without further ado, internal Health 9 1 1 listeners. Give your props and attention to Mr. Joel Austin. Yay.
[00:04:44] Dr. Jill Baker: How did you get into the work of working with fathers and deciding that there was some, , formal mechanisms support? Resources needed for black fathers. Where did that, where did that fire kind of start for you?
[00:05:11] Joel Austin: Interesting enough that fire started for me at a hospital. I had my first son which that was an interesting story.
[00:05:24] Joel Austin: Three years later, I had my second son. They're about four, three and three and a half, four years apart. At that time, my first son was invited to a new brother, new sister event that they had at the hospital. It was cool. You had all of these kids learning how to help mom and dad with the new baby.
[00:05:47] Joel Austin: Oh my gosh. So I took them there in the morning and I sat there and I looked at all these kids learning about how to, , fix a bottle or how to, , do certain things to help mom and dad. But I found myself after a while, taking notes I found that they were teaching my then five and a half year old information that I had not learned.
[00:06:10] Joel Austin: And at that time, , head of household, I'm the, , the leader of the pack. I'm thinking I am the only one that has not been taught about how to take care of an infant. I have a bachelor's degree, so I know I can learn, and I thought this is wrong. Why don't I know as much as my five and half, six year old, why haven't I not been brought in?
[00:06:36] Joel Austin: Why, why am. And that's when Daddy University started. We are a male parenting education. We just feel as though everyone needs to know. Everyone needs to know nutrition. Everyone needs to know infant. Yes. Development. Everyone needs to, everyone needs to know. Everyone needs to know what the right things to do.
[00:06:57] Joel Austin: Some of the tools and tips, it was unfair and it is wrong that everyone doesn't know. Right, right.
[00:07:06] Dr. Jill Baker: Well, you, , you have to take some credit in that, , people have kids every day, women become mothers and, and they become fathers every day. And it has to take some in intuition to know that, okay, something's not right here, and that's okay.
[00:07:25] Dr. Jill Baker: Yes. You no judgment. No, I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad father. I. Make a bottle. But that there are, like you said, there are definite, the playing fields are, are not the same for parents of color with this information and our white counterparts. , just like every other experience of,
[00:07:46] Joel Austin: that I was supposed to, like my job started and ended with drop off and pickup and that my job started and ended with putting a car seat in. Believe I was. I became angry because I was so involved. I was so involved in visits.
[00:08:06] Joel Austin: I, I was, I was there for the visits. I was there for all the classes and, and that no one pulled me at all and pull in, in, in the nine months, pulled me to the side to say, this may happen. Like, I learned about this new word. It was a brand new word that I never heard before. And this, and this new word was called cesarean.
[00:08:26] Joel Austin: I learned this new word and I learned what this new word meant an hour before the actual cesarean. Wow. And then I learned that cesarean is, is I, I don't wanna be rude, but the person may, may come out and the person may not come out. That's true. And learn. That's true. Now an hour. Yeah. You learn that an hour before.
[00:08:49] Joel Austin: Oh. And I'm like, I've been here for nine months. Why? Why am I just looked at as the the Uber driver. So the involvement and inclusion in the training and education, it just rolled on from there. And now we're 19 years strong in providing this information.
[00:09:12] Dr. Jill Baker: And so I, I'm thinking two things that I'm thinking.
[00:09:14] Dr. Jill Baker: I mean, typically, , depending on where you go for. Care while you're pregnant. Prenatal care, the partners, the hospitals are supposed to have these kinds of, , programs and they're opposed to, but every hospital doesn't, every, , birthing place doesn't have this information, or they may not have it for fathers either.
[00:09:39] Dr. Jill Baker: And you saying, , I'm not the Uber driver. Like that's very, that's real. That's real. Like I'm not just dropping you off for appointments, like the father should be involved and informed and educated. So as a whole with that right there, do you feel like that is how fathers are treated in society?
[00:10:06] Dr. Jill Baker: And, and more, and especially fathers of color and black fathers.
[00:10:10] Joel Austin: Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Fathers, black fathers specifically, and then fathers overall are number one treated as their priorities should be in Providership. Yes, unfortunately. I mean, yes, that's right. But the reality of our time is that the providership has to nurturing conversation.
[00:10:32] Joel Austin: And, and the actual financial should come la later we we're looked at as, , financially provided and everything else will be all right, but we're finding out with our children and our teens that the quality time of Providership is number one. , monetarily, sneakers or no sneakers is, is actually way down the list and I know it's also an issue.
[00:10:59] Joel Austin: When you have a gynecological visit, it's a woman's place and it's a sacred space. Unfortunately the same building turns into an OBGYN visit, and that's no longer, but they have the same people in there. They have the same, right. , it's the same color building, same door. So you, you train these men and boys.
[00:11:25] Joel Austin: A gynecological visit to us is a woman's bathroom. It's a place you're taught not into, but one day. And we all know one day flips and becomes obgyn and that's, that's a different place. But yet Jill, it's so, it becomes this cultural difference of you should be allowing more openness. To the ob-gyn, but it's, it's complicated and it's still complicates today.
[00:11:55] Joel Austin: How do we do that balance? How do we, right,
[00:11:58] Dr. Jill Baker: right. So what, so what do you think are some of those barriers for black men and male men of color in healthcare system or in, in doctor's offices and appointments staff interactions and things of, of that nature.
[00:12:17] Dr. Jill Baker: Well,
[00:12:17] Joel Austin: the number one reason is that traditionally in our, the way.
[00:12:26] Joel Austin: Don't know what they don't know and cause they dunno, they put themselves to the side. They literally will sit in a parking lot. Cause they dunno what they dunno if once you like myself, I'm a certified postpartum doula. Like you said, once you get into the maternal health world, it'll, it will scare you once you get into black maternal health.
[00:12:53] Joel Austin: You'll be sh you'll, you'll be crying in the corner when the statistics. If that there is a, for maternal health, there's a chance that mom may not come back out that hospital. Yes. The reality is what we share is in black maternal health, both of them may not come back out. And if they knew, if they know that they need to be at every visit, if they knew how important this.
[00:13:20] Joel Austin: If they knew to be a better, and it's our problem as birth workers, we're not educating the best tool we have. We're not using one of the best tools we have to, to change these numbers and to change these outcomes. We've failing by not allowing, giving them the information they need to do a better job.
[00:13:41] Joel Austin: Right. Right.
[00:13:42] Dr. Jill Baker: Abso Absolutely. Let's backtrack. How so? How did you, I mean, it's not a far leap, but I, but yet, and still I was just like, I was shocked. Shocked, but like, wow.
[00:13:56] Joel Austin: Yes. I, I got
[00:13:57] Dr. Jill Baker: invited. How did you get in maternal health world and, and black and and black maternal health and. And then you saying, okay, I gotta do something. I, I'm already doing this with the black fathers.
[00:14:11] Dr. Jill Baker: I gotta take care of them. Mm-hmm. But now maternal health and black maternal health is black women and babies dying every day is mm-hmm. The truth.
[00:14:23] Joel Austin: It only took one or two meetings. I was to maternal health symposium. Yeah. And then I was in black, invited to a black maternal health symposium. I, I then I was invited to speak.
[00:14:38] Joel Austin: I, I'm speaking at a couple of conferences, black Maternal Health in Houston, Texas, black Maternal Health in Dallas. I was invited to speak on, What I learned and what I learned was uhhuh, the numbers, I learned the morbidity rates. I learned about the mortality rates, and I, I, and I learned about why these rates are sometime increased in certain areas.
[00:14:59] Joel Austin: I learned about the stressors. I learned about yes, nutrition, and I learned about food deserts and, and because I was already trained in paternal health, I, I had to ask myself, I'm the solution. I mean, I had to say to myself, I'm the solution. What?
[00:15:24] Joel Austin: Cannot gain too much weight. That's what my culture says. My culture says you're eating for two. Mm-hmm. You're eating for three. You need to eat more. And then I go into this maternal health side. You can be obese and like my culture is anti, right? Yeah. So I'm like, something's going on. Who's right? Who's wrong?
[00:15:47] Joel Austin: So when learn, you say I'm part of the problem. And I'm also part of the solution. I'm allowed to let my new mom have french fries, but then the next day I'm allowed to say to her, we can have apple slices. I, I mean, I'm in charge of a lot of these things, but I don't know what I don't know. And, and now once we talk about birthing plans, and now when we talk about visits, And how important it is to take down this information and to know what a, what, what a green stool is, what a versus a yellow stool.
[00:16:23] Joel Austin: You have a, you have a force circling mom, and, and, and now our numbers will change. Right, right.
[00:16:32] Dr. Jill Baker: Abso Absolutely. I'm telling you the numbers. , the numbers are astounding and heart wrenching. Like you said, you, you can cry about it.
[00:16:43] Joel Austin: Well, we haven't been, but
[00:16:45] Dr. Jill Baker: cry and then pick yourself up and get in the fight.
[00:16:49] Dr. Jill Baker: Soon as you finish that
[00:16:50] Joel Austin: you, what you did, you'll find out what you can personally do. Once you finish, you're, you do well. What you can do is learn about nutrition. Mom should, and mom should, that you learn different ways of how to get what Call horse pill, which. How do you get her to take her that in, in unique ways?
[00:17:11] Joel Austin: You grind it up in a smoothie. Got you. Have. I'm
[00:17:15] Dr. Jill Baker: so glad I don't have to do that.
[00:17:18] Joel Austin: Mean Why?
[00:17:25] Joel Austin: That's part my job is try, but, but I need to know how important it is because if my wife or my lady complains about it, I'll just like, oh. But once I know what it is and the value of it, I'll find other unique ways. Put it in yogurt. I don't what people do. You gotta, yeah. Yeah. You'll find a way to help instead of sit by.
[00:17:49] Joel Austin: I feel like we're putting, trying to put them in a game without a playbook. Like we have not instructed them of a, of a better role they can play.
[00:17:59] Dr. Jill Baker: Right, right. So as a researcher, as a community health researcher The, the impact of doulas, mm. Particularly for, for black women and, and black babies is, is astounding.
[00:18:14] Dr. Jill Baker: Yes. How the numbers change shift dramatically when there's a doula in the room.
[00:18:25] Dr. Jill Baker: You doulas get enough attention? No. Okay, so what is, why is that, and what can we do about that? Because the numbers show how much they make a difference. It don't lie
[00:18:45] Joel Austin: from a black maternal and paternal perspective. We have learned to trust. And put a lot of our trust into a white coat, and I'm just gonna leave it at that, almost all of our trust into a white coat.
[00:19:00] Joel Austin: A doula has typically been something that a rich person can have. It's close to a nanny and so forth. Now, in this community, doula, in this community position in, in this new black doula positions, we're learning it's more affordable than you think, and it's more necessary than you think. Doulas help you come up with a birthing plan.
[00:19:23] Joel Austin: And the birthing plan Are your instructions on how, what fits you best to have your child? Lemme say that again. Your instructions on what fits you best to have your child. So instead of, and we know what the ladder is and ladder has resulted in.
[00:19:46] Joel Austin: If you want, a doula is able to say, if you choose to have an epidural, you can, but you can also choose not to, right? No one can make you. You allowed to make this choice yourself. And we also allowed to explain what an epidural is to dad. An epidural is to your grandparents, and the epidural is to aunt, uncle, and to explain to the family what it does and some of the pros and cons.
[00:20:12] Joel Austin: And you can now make your choices and you have someone in your corner coaching you on what's best again for your baby. Right?
[00:20:23] Dr. Jill Baker: Right. And the empowerment that Yes, the doula brings to the, the whole equation and the experience for the mother.
[00:20:34] Joel Austin: This is not a, it's not a, doula's not an anti hospital. The doulas anti is pro empowerment.
[00:20:41] Joel Austin: You
[00:20:41] Dr. Jill Baker: can. Right. But, but sometimes the hospitals, they don't always feel that way. And I know that there's this often dynamic that occurs. Yes. When the doula is, is is there and present and going against what the OB wants. Well, you can talk, you, you probably have experience with that.
[00:21:08] Joel Austin: I'm sure. The hospital has a priority list.
[00:21:12] Joel Austin: A and I'm going to say just for me, that the priority is the health of the baby first, the newborn first, and then secondly, the, the health.
[00:21:30] Joel Austin: Setting does not know the mother very well. So that's a lot of times when our, our dads have to come in and say that she doesn't like red juice, she likes blue juice. She doesn't like this. She doesn't want that. She, someone has to speak up for her during a certain time when she's not at her best.
[00:21:48] Joel Austin: She's a little hormonal. I'm having contractions and stand, stand up for feel. They look. Going this way is healthier and will have a better outcome for the hospital, right? Where sometimes you have to for yourself, what's the best outcome for you? And those are decisions that doulas don't make. Those are decisions that we help you in, the power you to make on your own.
[00:22:18] Joel Austin: Cause there are times when they'll come in and say, make you believe that there's only one choice. Right. Right,
[00:22:26] Dr. Jill Baker: right. And I, I would say, especially if it's your first pregnancy, yes. Cause you haven't had the experience, so you don't know, and you're kind of blindly trusting that the doctors are going to make the right decisions for you.
[00:22:45] Dr. Jill Baker: And oftentimes that's not the case, especially for black women and women of color.
[00:22:56] Dr. Jill Baker: And we, and we have, but now we, and then we have so many brothers who lost their wives, lost their partners, have lost babies, and some that I know personally who have now, , become advocates like, , Amari Maynard and, right. Yeah. After birth. Yep. , who's a, a friend and, and a fellow ally.
[00:23:19] Dr. Jill Baker: But, but that's like ever, this is happening every day. Mm-hmm. And when I think about it, it, I, it just, just, It makes me mad, so that's why I'm like, we gotta keep talking. We gotta keep figuring out solutions
[00:23:39] Joel Austin: We, we have to have shows like that really work. Yes. We have to go into communities and we have to say, number one, you have these choices for the best outcome for your birth.
[00:23:54] Joel Austin: It is not a medical thing. Some of this is a, a stress relief thing. If you wanna have grandma's old blanket with you then Right. You write that in there. This quilt, this quilt goes with me. , I don't care. Right, right. Cooper is, and we're finding out from a, a medical profession that, , the child is feeling better, mom is feeling better birth is easier.
[00:24:16] Joel Austin: Maybe just what they blanket, , or just with a qui, it's, you have the don't let. What you can and cannot do at all the time. Try to arrange what's best for both of you during this time.
[00:24:34] Dr. Jill Baker: So what is your, so when you work with the couples that you work with and you, , talk to them about the, , reality that there's a high chance that mom could die and that the babies as, as well.
[00:24:50] Dr. Jill Baker: What is their, what is some of like the overall sentiment or, or, or feelings when those conversations are had?
[00:25:01] Joel Austin: Number one, you have to have that conversation first, and I believe you have, we have it first because I need you to realize that the next things I'm saying, how serious the. And the next things I'm about to say are so serious.
[00:25:16] Joel Austin: It's worth you taking the day off. It's worth you attending X, Y, and Z Cause I've said that first thing, it's worth you telling your friends, well, we, I can't today. It is worth both of you coming together, sitting down and saying, this is what best for us. And, and no matter the outcome, if you both come to, , a, a strong choice.
[00:25:39] Joel Austin: That's the choice you've chosen, but it's also worth you writing down information, taking notes. And it's also worth specifically for my new dads. We teach them to be snitches. We teach them to to
[00:25:56] Joel Austin: wait a minute. Yes. Listen, I love.
[00:26:02] Dr. Jill Baker: Oh my gosh. So I'd love
[00:26:03] Joel Austin: how you just snitches have better outcomes. That's our thing. Snitches have better outcomes.
[00:26:08] Dr. Jill Baker: Wait a minute. So that's gonna be the, that's gonna be the
[00:26:12] Joel Austin: Yes. Yeses.
[00:26:16] Dr. Jill Baker: So, no, wait a minute. Wait. A, this is, this is genius because you, you, you've taken this part of our, of our
[00:26:24] Joel Austin: culture.
[00:26:24] Joel Austin: Yes.
[00:26:30] Dr. Jill Baker: Wow.
[00:26:30] Joel Austin: So you love my, , you love our, our new moms as much as I do, but they, , they, they'll exaggerate some things. If you ask them, did they have fruit? They'll say Yes. And then it's up to the dad to say, well, you only had cherry vanilla ice cream. That is not a, and that's not a fruit.
[00:26:50] Joel Austin: I love it.
[00:26:52] Dr. Jill Baker: That does not count.
[00:26:57] Joel Austin: Yeah. Been healthy.
[00:27:04] Joel Austin: Oh, and I at don't wanna,
[00:27:09] Dr. Jill Baker: I love, love, but that's also like just, just, Just sparking advocacy in another way and, and protection in another way. Because it's important that nutrition post baby is, oh my gosh. It's so, it's so important, especially if you're trying to to nurse, mm-hmm. Which I was able to do with my youngest.
[00:27:33] Dr. Jill Baker: Mm-hmm. And that attention and care and everything, it's, it's so, so important. , the skin to skin contact. Yes. And for, for dad and
[00:27:46] Joel Austin: mom, we teach chest feeding. Oh, literally using the breast milk. It's a, it's a, it's a win-win. Because using the breast milk to feed the child with your shirt off, now you have the touch and the feel.
[00:28:00] Joel Austin: You're actually now feeding and then, And then it's actually a win-win win because if you do it correctly, mom can get something that she's always wanted, which is a nap. And that's an incredible thing for, for a new mom.
[00:28:15] Dr. Jill Baker: Yes, you can sleep, yeah, can sleep with the baby on you, which I couldn't do it.
[00:28:20] Dr. Jill Baker: My twins, I mean, there possible, I know there are some twin moms. I couldn't do that, but I was able to do that with Amari. It was complete a completely different experience. But you're, you're absolutely, you're absolutely right. The other thing I wanted to ask, so, okay, so how, so how, so you de, okay, so you went into this, you got into this work.
[00:28:45] Dr. Jill Baker: So then what made you decide. To create the Doulas for Dads program because you could have been like, okay, Joelle, I'm gonna do this myself. Yeah. And this is gonna be my personal work, my other mm-hmm. Hat of work. So what made you say, okay, I need no, there has to be other dads. It can't just be me. I, yeah.
[00:29:13] Joel Austin: I wanna, , I wanna say some other things, but to be honest with you, it's, it's so annoying and sometimes it was so asinine for me to sit through conferences, seminars, symposiums, learning information while you're, you're sitting there thinking if other men knew this, a piece of this, we could have so many changes if, if.
[00:29:40] Joel Austin: They, if you ask, , and I don't wanna be funny, but if you ask a lot of my friends about a vbac, many of them will say, yeah, I played that position in college. Like, this is how, this is how, and I blame birth workers. I blame like we, we we're, we have not,
[00:30:04] Joel Austin: was. Oh my God. Well, whose fault is this? , is it the guy sitting in the parking lot? Yeah, it's his fault. Cause he's in the parking lot. But is it the person that says, , is he here? Yeah. He said, , is it, are we inviting him in? We, we had to do more. So I wrote, there was a maternal health grant and I wrote a paternal health grant and I, and it, and it got approved.
[00:30:29] Joel Austin: I wrote it, it, it was a six or seven page. It basically said, what if the dads knew more about nutrition, the stressors on mom, maternal health? What if they knew more? And, and it was in 2021, someone said, yeah, that's a good idea. Which is yes, I'm 2020. Thank, yes, I'm thankful, but the hand I.
[00:30:57] Joel Austin: Because you have these men who want to solve the problem. Yes, thank God they, they want solve the problem, but if your breast hurt, if they are sore, if they are this, they're cho, they wanna just solve the problem, which is to grab this much infamil as they can. That's not, but they, that's not
[00:31:16] Dr. Jill Baker: the solution, right?
[00:31:18] Joel Austin: Solution. The solution is there's other solutions, but they don't know. They don't know. They don't know that a hot shower is a solution, is the solution, right? They also know that stimulation is a solution, which why? You're not telling your man do what got you the baby in the first place. Help milk, milk.
[00:31:40] Joel Austin: Put Marvin Gaye on and do
[00:31:44] Dr. Jill Baker: the natural things that made you have this baby that
[00:31:47] Joel Austin: helped are natural thing. Right.
[00:31:52] Dr. Jill Baker: But then what's interesting though? It when you, so then when, gosh,
[00:31:58] Joel Austin: guys need to know
[00:32:02] Dr. Jill Baker: when you start having these conversations with the dads though, like what? Reactions, , to this. Like, what, for real? I didn't know
[00:32:11] Joel Austin: you're happy. , I, I got taught as a doula a low back move. I got taught as a doula, a, a, a knee push. And, and some of these positions are to relieve the pain of contractions to, in such a way that.
[00:32:27] Joel Austin: The pain of contractions. Yes, yes. For years, we have been going in and spending maybe two and three hours if we can to help mom relieve the pain of contractions that is three to four hours outta a day and left her there for 20 hours with me complaining and sore. Right? And now when you teach a guy a, a new dad or a boyfriend, hey, if you do this, she'll feel better.
[00:32:55] Joel Austin: What, why haven't, like what, what, why, why, why haven't we, why they, they love, right? They love having a job. They love having a position. They love knowing that they're just as involved. They, they love knowing that they're helping. They love know how to make her happy. They love knowing having some empowerment on their own.
[00:33:16] Joel Austin: New girl, new, new boy. They, they, they wanna do everything they can to have this legacy. They, they want, they want, they wanna, they wanna be in. And we've left out, I, I have, I have a speech and, and, and, and when I do my keynote, I start out with it 168 hours. There are 168 hours in a week. And as birthing professionals, as nurses and doctors, as OBGYNs.
[00:33:45] Joel Austin: We usually spend, if, if it's at the most 15 to maybe, let's say 20 hours with a week with mom, with appointments and so forth, that means eight hours are left. Yeah. To a, to a new dad who, who we have not brought in to help. So she, and then we're like, these numbers are terrible. It's, that's a lot hours.
[00:34:13] Dr. Jill Baker: That's a lot time. And when you're pregnant, it feels even longer than that. It's, yeah, it's Cause you're like, this is the longest, it's like, dog, this is the longest thing I've ever done to myself,
[00:34:27] Joel Austin: got myself in this. It's seven times those hours when you're right.
[00:34:32] Dr. Jill Baker: And a lot of times you don't feel, you don't feel good most of those times either sick or your back hurts or your feet are swollen.
[00:34:42] Joel Austin: Yeah, we are teaching dads meal prep. That's part of the help meal prep. You can do prep before you leave. You, do you already have dinner set up when you come in from work, you, you're able to do laundry separately. You, you do all of these little tasks that, that gain you that. Are so much better than than candy and and jewels.
[00:35:04] Joel Austin: It's, it's, it's these necessary things that you do that help her des and when a de mom is,
[00:35:14] Dr. Jill Baker: Yeah, destressed mom is going, have a good pregnancy,
[00:35:18] Joel Austin: a good pregnancy, and then now we're counting, as , a year and two years out as far as morbidity rates and mortality rates. So, Now, what do you do going forward?
[00:35:28] Joel Austin: You have postpartum doulas. You have people that help you get your life together. And, and, and I'm not gonna say having a new baby can become, it's, it's simpler when you have these tools, it's simpler.
[00:35:42] Dr. Jill Baker: And so what are some of the things that the postpartum doulas kind of focus on, on the most needs? One in, in two year periods. Also, because the other thing, well, they're still. Woman of color dying mm-hmm. Up to what, twenty four, twenty four weeks post-birth. And those numbers are still kind of, are going, , going up as well.
[00:36:08] Dr. Jill Baker: And, and one of the main issue, well, mm-hmm. You do this, it's stress. Stress.
[00:36:16] Joel Austin: So it's worth, like you said, going into community or going into someone's home and having this open conversation. Secondly, what we have specifically became are bilingual. I am I speak paternal health and I speak maternal health, and I'm able to say, this is what moms is actually saying.
[00:36:36] Joel Austin: This is what mom actually needs. And I'm also able to say to mom, this is why dad is doing this and this is why he's doing this. And he, he's fixing this step. That has been broken for a while because he's actually going through nesting. He's actually going through nesting. Oh, is that
[00:36:54] Dr. Jill Baker: My husband did that.
[00:36:57] Joel Austin: I'm thinking
[00:36:59] Dr. Jill Baker: fixing why
[00:37:03] Dr. Jill Baker: about
[00:37:05] Joel Austin: Right. If you trip on this step now you the baby, you're gonna trip. That's so crazy. Cause that did happen. That's what nesting looks like. It looks
[00:37:12] Dr. Jill Baker: different. I was mad. I was mad. I didn't get it. I didn't get
[00:37:17] it.
[00:37:17] Joel Austin: So that, and when you come in and you're able to speak bilingual, each person is now getting it a little bit more.
[00:37:25] Joel Austin: Yes. Right. I actually had to speak to a mom because I had a mom who was very empowered. She was very independent and needed things done when they needed to be done. So I told her I was very strong with her and told her that they, these things can only get done on Thursday. Because that's his day off.
[00:37:44] Joel Austin: You cannot, as a mother be pushing TVs around changing furniture. It you going to have to wait till Thursday and, and dad, when you come, , when you wake up on Thursday, you already have a list. But we can't, we can't do this. We can't. You can't be in your third trimester. Right? It's
[00:38:06] Dr. Jill Baker: push yourself. You do.
[00:38:07] Dr. Jill Baker: You're like, maybe, and , , like,
[00:38:18] Joel Austin: Lemme
[00:38:18] Dr. Jill Baker: just move this, so,
[00:38:20] Joel Austin: right. I was like, just make a list, 34 weeks pregnant. I'm good.
[00:38:27] Dr. Jill Baker: It's so true. But I think for us though, at that we're all, it's the nesting for us too. Yes. And so we're just like, we wanna fix, we want everything fixed. Mm-hmm. We want everything to look in a certain way. And yeah. And then it's like our bodies, we should not be doing anything
[00:38:44] Joel Austin: like, Do everything up to, , whatever, do everything up to 15 pounds.
[00:38:51] Joel Austin: Everything 15 pounds and under were great, but anything 15, 20 pounds and over, had to wait till Thursday and dad promised that when he woke, that was his list. He got his list for Thursday. He's not gonna do anything else. He's gonna knock out that list. So we have to bring our, our job is do is to bring about some balance.
[00:39:11] Joel Austin: You, you can't do this. And he was saying, you're doing this Monday, but if you so about some that's so, it's
[00:39:19] Dr. Jill Baker: like having a negoti, a mediator,
[00:39:21] Joel Austin: like having
[00:39:23] Dr. Jill Baker: objective media objective because, but the, the outcome is to protect mom and protect the baby and, and, and, and make sure the mother know like, Dad wants to, he's gonna
[00:39:38] Joel Austin: help change attorneys.
[00:39:46] Joel Austin: Yeah,
[00:39:55] Joel Austin: right. , new parent, they're both right. So how do you get to help them understand there are birthing issues? That can come about from you both not being on the same train. Right? And these stressors are, are not just maternal health. These stressors go into infant health as well, right? How do, how do you help you understand that your nutrition goes into the infant's body and what you're eating?
[00:40:25] Joel Austin: And it's not just you and, and how we. How we both play a role. Like I, you can't, and I, you have to even let dad know you can't fry all the food anymore. You can't fry the fish and the vegetables and, and the, I know that's your culture, but those are once a week things and , those are special things and Right.
[00:40:49] Joel Austin: We get both of them to balance. And realize it's not a mom thing, it's an a mom in infant health and your child and your new daughter, health and, and legacy. And this lasts for a long time. Breast milk is important. Breast milks helps you feel stronger. Yes, breast milk keeps you outta the hospital, but a lots don know this, know that the the value,
[00:41:12] Dr. Jill Baker: the the value and the benefits of it.
[00:41:14] Dr. Jill Baker: Yeah. Right, right. Absolutely. So with the Doulas for Dads program, are you going to be expanding it? Yes. And if so, yeah. Can you share with us, , how, what's that gonna look like for the program?
[00:41:30] Joel Austin: Currently we are in Philadelphia and we're in Delaware. The program is going.
[00:41:43] Joel Austin: Conversations around funding doulas in the community to do this work under maternal health. And once the government puts out grants all over, we're gonna join that in having doulas for dads in almost every single state that you can call upon, of course. Oh my goodness. It's called doulas for Dads, but we are doulas, which.
[00:42:05] Joel Austin: Please know that we work with moms. Cause that's what the doulas do, right? But we also have the ability and the comfortable enough to bring him in and say, I know you want an appointment on Wednesday, but again, I'm gonna have to wait till Thursday till Dad's day off. I want you both in this room. I wanna teach these tools to him.
[00:42:23] Joel Austin: I need him, the boyfriend, the
[00:42:30] Joel Austin: whoever, right? I want them there. Right. And so yeah, we were definitely expanding. I'm interested in people Texas right now,
[00:42:44] Joel Austin: conferences.
[00:42:50] Joel Austin: Oh,
[00:42:52] Dr. Jill Baker: amazing. So important. Oh, okay. Oh my gosh. Wait a minute. I realize I forgot to ask you the first question that I ask everyone. That's okay. It's just gonna have to be put in the front of the That's okay. So your first question, Joelle, your first question, it's not gonna be your first, but first question.
[00:43:19] Dr. Jill Baker: Two more questions. So this was supposed to be the first one. Why do you think maternal health. Is an emergency in this country.
[00:43:36] Joel Austin: It is literally a generational problem that can cause an an annihilation of your heritage. It. Trickle down of more pain, more grief and, and losses that none of us are prepared for and, and can ever get over it. It is an an emergency because we, we. Build off of these dreams. And it's a dream and it's, it's an absolute blessing.
[00:44:18] Joel Austin: And it's, you, it's an ordainment. Cause does get the chance to be mother or dad and get that snatched away. You did not have enough apples to get taken. You were not informed of. Of, of different choices. It's, it's not right. It's, I understand life and I understand how life works and death, but to, to, to grieve over, like it's a information you did not get and you could have almost prevented.
[00:45:01] Joel Austin: And that's one of the main things the maternal.
[00:45:06] Joel Austin: The negative outcomes have gone down. But, and that they're still around because we haven't gotten to the prevention and the more proactive side of things. Right. And once we do you'll find some that these things will occur, but they will not occur through ignorance at
[00:45:28] Dr. Jill Baker: this,
[00:45:29] Joel Austin: at this level.
[00:45:34] Joel Austin: Yeah, it, yes, I, I don't wanna get too much on the soapbox, but, well, that
[00:45:38] Dr. Jill Baker: should have been the first question, so, ok. My fault. Ok. But your last question is, with all that said your perspective is, can we be hopeful, are there things that we can be hopeful about regarding birth and maternal mortality?
[00:46:00] Dr. Jill Baker: Outcomes in this country and birth and, and paternal mortality, health and paternal health.
[00:46:07] Joel Austin: I'm absolutely hopeful. I again, just this year I'm speaking at five different conferences either a symposium, workshops on paternal health, on how paternal health is essential to maternal health. And I find that.
[00:46:23] Joel Austin: These people have brought me in because they are hopeful that we have now recognized that giving a, a new mother who is in, who is hormonal, 100% of the responsibility and 100% of the information has not been working for us. It's clearly not working. It's, it's not working. I'm just gonna, she's a little busy.
[00:46:48] Joel Austin: She, most of 'em just thinking, I just don't wanna peel myself. So I dunno what she said. Like, I just don't wanna, so right now that we have opened up ourselves to say maybe we should let the family in this maternal space, maybe we should let the paternal side, maybe we should let grandma, grandpa.
[00:47:11] Joel Austin: That there are so many people on the sidelines that it's hurtful. Still have grandparents saying that Mom should sleep with the baby. Right. They know with the baby. Right. Cause that's the way it it. Cause that's the way they did it because,
[00:47:29] Dr. Jill Baker: or you don't need a car seat.
[00:47:31] Joel Austin: Yeah. I just hold them. If you love 'em, hold them.
[00:47:35] Joel Austin: You don't do that anymore. There's people that have Hennessy in their house for a reason, cause guns. Right. Ok. But like
[00:47:42] Dr. Jill Baker: you said, if , , and so it has to be on us. Fill the gap.
[00:47:48] Joel Austin: I shared with a dad that he is not allowed to smack the baby's hand for three years, and he asked me, well, why? And I said, because the bones are so fragile that someone like you could break almost every bone in the hand and in the arm.
[00:48:09] Joel Austin: He had no clue. He did not do anything. And I think he still hasn't touched that child cause of that. Wow. But these things, the impact, can you imagine not being known and then now you're rushing the hospital. Now this baby is under investigation in your whole house cause of something culturally you were to do.
[00:48:33] Joel Austin: Right? Right. Baby gets near a oven. That's what culturally we were taught to do. Right, right. Oh my
[00:48:42] Dr. Jill Baker: gosh. You could be talking forever. We can talk forever. We already know that. So I see hope, but this is not going, this is gonna be the first of of many conversations we're gonna have on my show. Oh, I, I definitely want us to do a, , special episode for Father's Day.
[00:49:08] Dr. Jill Baker: Keep talking about, keep talking about fathers and how important they are and how special they are and all of the amazing and work that, that you are doing to make real changes to these disparities. And having the dad and having the family. Mm-hmm. Having the family there because it's a family. It's a family affair.
[00:49:35] Dr. Jill Baker: And that's how it used to be. And, and as you said that the hospital has kinda changed that for us, but it had, it did work for us and we need to go back to what worked. So
[00:49:50] Joel Austin: because, thank you. Yeah. Our, oh, go ahead Joelle. No, I'm just saying our, your absolutely right. Our upbringing is, Our D n A is village work.
[00:50:00] Joel Austin: We, we have, yes. We, we never had children alone. We never even raised children alone. We we're culturally village people and everybody on the block has a hand in it normally.
[00:50:15] Dr. Jill Baker: Right. And so we have to go back to the village approach when it comes to maternal health. Absolutely. Woohoo. Look at that. Look.
[00:50:26] Joel Austin: Came up.
[00:50:26] Joel Austin: There you go.
[00:50:32] Dr. Jill Baker: Oh, this great. Look at what we came up listening this very special episode today. I want to thank my. Amazing guest, Mr. Joel Austin wants more for joining us on the show and, and sharing such important information regarding all the work that he's doing to reduce, , birth and maternal health disparities in this country.
[00:51:02] Dr. Jill Baker: Joel, let all the listeners know where they can find you on social media
[00:51:06] Joel Austin: please. Facebook, Joel Austin, Facebook Daddy University Instagram Daddy University Inc. We're at daddy com. You can go to our website if any of your dads that . If you want any information on ages and stages, you'll find a lot article.
[00:51:33] Dr. Jill Baker: Woohoo. Thank you so much and thank you everyone for listening today.
[00:51:41] Joel Austin: 3,
[00:51:42] Dr. Jill Baker: 2, 1. Yeah. Thank you for listening to this episode of Maternal Health 9 1 1. Please follow the show on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Feel free to DM me with your questions and thoughts or to share your infertility, fertility, and maternal health story. For more information on this podcast and your host, Visit ww dot dr joe baker.com listening to the show on Apple Podcast.
[00:52:08] Dr. Jill Baker: Please rate and review it. It really helps the show and the feedback is welcome
[00:52:24] Joel Austin: here.
Meet Joel Austin, Co-Founder, President & CEO of Daddy University Inc. and Executive Director of The School of Parent Education, a 501©3. He is a driving force behind promoting responsible parenting and elevating the role of fathers in families and communities.
As a father of four and mentor to seven, Mr. Austin is dedicated to educating people on the importance of fatherhood. His brainchild, the Doulas 4 Dads Program, is the first all-male doula program designed to support fathers and families. Their postpartum doulas program is tailored to educate fathers on caring for newborns, nurturing, development, health, and more.
Under his leadership, Daddy University Inc. has become a respected leader in fatherhood information, support, and training. As a national speaker and skilled facilitator, Mr. Austin has empowered thousands of individuals and groups across the country to positively impact the lives of others with his passion for the subject.
Guest Bio:
JOEL AUSTIN is the Co- Founder, President & Chief Executive Officer for Daddy University Inc. and the Executive Director of The School of Parent Education a 501©3. In this role he serves as a strong, undeniable force in propelling males and responsible parenting to the forefront of the family and community agenda.
Fueled by his role as a father of four, figure to 7 more, Mr. Austin is personally and professionally committed to educating and re-educating people about the importance of fatherhood. Through his leadership, Daddy University Inc. has grown into a recognized authority on fatherhood information, support, and training. As a national speaker and skilled facilitator, Mr. Austin presents to thousands across the nation; infusing his passion through audiences and empowering individuals and groups to positively impact the lives of others.
Mr. Austin is a proud graduate of Cheyney University in Pennsylvania and obtained real-life skills training as a veteran of the U.S. Army. He is recognized by his peers as a trailblazer in the field of fatherhood and appreciated by young and more seasoned fathers for his authentic advice, compassionate wisdom, and contagious passion.
Among his many accomplishments, Mr. Austin is the founder of the 12th National Fatherhood and Young Men’s Conference whose message has reached over 58,500 individuals and groups since its inception in 2006. He is also the founder of the Annual Daddy Daughter Dance, in its eleventh year; it has become a tradition that changes the lives of families everywhere. Mr. Austin is also the chief facilitator and program developer for the Fathers Club; a free weekly fatherhood training group. He is also the lead facilitator and program developer for the Parent Academy, a biweekly class held for all parents.
In 2019 He founded the Doulas 4 Dads Program, which has trained 8 males to assist Fathers in supporting our new mothers and infants. Always the visionary, Mr. Austin in 2020 established the Delta Alpha Delta (DAD) Fraternity Inc. so, all fathers of all ages and stages can come together and support each other.
Mr. Austin is one of the few Certified Master Trainer of both the National Fatherhood Initiative Curriculum as well as the N.P.C.L. Fatherhood Development Curriculum.
Learn more about Dr. Jill here.
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