Ep.13/ When You Need To Choose You In The Midst of Infertility: Depression, Mental Health and Healing with Dr. Vanessa Goodbar Part 2
EP.13/ When You Need To Choose You In The Midst of Infertility: Depression, Mental Health and Healing with Dr. Vanessa Goodbar Part 2
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Note: This transcription has been created with a help of an AI thus errors and mistranscriptions may be present.
[00:00:00] Dr. Jill Baker: Hello? Maternal Health 911? What's your emergency?
[00:00:14] Dr. Jill Baker: Hi, I'm Dr. Joe Baker. I'm a wife, a mother, a community health scholar, an executive director, and a fertility coach. More than 12 years ago, I was on my own infertility journey. Since then I've made it my personal mission to help anyone who is on their own journey. to become a parent, as well as shed light on infertility and maternal health experiences of BIPOC women and couples.
[00:00:42] Dr. Jill Baker: Now, let's begin this week's episode of Maternal Health 9 1 1.
[00:00:52] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: I went to follow up, my six week follow up with Dr. Shepard and I found out when I came to my appointment that she no longer was working there. She had, you know, left. And I knew that she was leaving, but I didn't know she was gone, you know, like you get that email and it's like, yeah, right, even it's like, oh yeah, yeah.
[00:01:14] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: But I didn't know when I'm there, I thought she was going to be there for at least my follower. So when I had a new doctor come in and she was like, Hey, Vanessa, how are you doing? And I was just like, dude, you know, that mean with that dad that's crying and, you know, when his kids say, I still love you and he's going, yes, that was me.
[00:01:34] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: And I was. And like inconsolable. And she was like, I'm going to refer you to the social worker and. you know, get, get you some support. So that, at that point, you know, my, my support group for fertility was not enough and I needed some real clinical support to deal with this grief that I was dealing with.
[00:01:56] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: So I actually was put into a day program and then the day program, I talked about fertility, but it really wasn't something that resonated with everyone that was there. Okay. It was more about just. Triage, if you will, and just kind of stabilizing folks because a lot of the people who I was there with, you know, they were a little further Out than I was like I was like not taking care of body functions And I still wanted to not you know, I wanted to shower.
[00:02:27] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: I still wanted to brush my teeth But I couldn't leave my house because I didn't want to run into anyone I didn't want to go to the store and see other people's children Like it was I didn't want to do anything besides like lay and think about what trigger below it Yeah, pretty much illuminates don't forget so, You I was connected with that, that self help group, and then as I was closing out with that full day program that I was in, I found a resource in YWCA here in Chicago that offered free therapy services for survivors of sexual assault.
[00:03:07] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: So I had been, I had a history with that. So I took advantage of this service and met a wonderful therapist who is still my therapist today. Oh, that's amazing! Five years in, we have our five year anniversary next month. That's my boo. And I started to do some trauma work because I realized when my uterus came up that That was the cherry on top, but the cake and the platter was that, that abuse that I had experienced as a child was some of the unaddressed traumas that I had experienced in teenage years and in early adulthood, and even with the abandonment with my daughter's father and my own father and some of the things we had dealt with, all of that was uprooted with my uterus and with my womb.
[00:03:54] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: And she helped me to Worked through those things, but then I got triggered from that and you know, when you start to discover your voice Trauma work is hard work. It's so hard trauma work is hard because you're
[00:04:07] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: making yourself have to relive All of these experiences over again, and you know when you're in therapy doing this You know, it's gonna be a long time You're gonna be there and you gotta buckle up every single time To have these conversations and go back in the past
[00:04:28] Dr. Jill Baker: and what is our main strategy, bury it, bury,
[00:04:31] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: bury, bury, bury, or make
[00:04:34] Dr. Jill Baker: it, we are always in an ever in survival mode, you know, that, that fight or flight, we're always in that mode.
[00:04:43] Dr. Jill Baker: And I had done that with all of my trauma, I had just suppressed, suppressed, suppressed. And when I pulled my uterus, well, not me, but when it came out, when my uterus came out, all of that stuff was right there waiting for me and saying like, Hey girl, like it's time to pay attention time to that. Pay this debt girl, that 12, that 19, all of those girls was right there waiting to
[00:05:07] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: last therapist.
[00:05:09] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: I loved her to death because she actually had me. Look at myself this, you know, like little Jill at six and Jill at 12 and have me talk to her
[00:05:22] Dr. Jill Baker: Oh, baby, I did that was
[00:05:24] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: such that was just so life
[00:05:27] Dr. Jill Baker: It was but it was hard and oh There was this group that we that because I was like obsessed with it at that point Wow, I wish I had known about therapy in undergrad I would have been in therapy and so I wanted to immerse myself more in to better understand myself more.
[00:05:45] Dr. Jill Baker: And it's outside of my individual session. I had signed up for a group session to process some of my childhood trauma and shared experiences with other women who had dealt with sexual abuse as children. And when I did my family tree, there was an activity that she had us do where we did our family tree and map out the traumas.
[00:06:10] Dr. Jill Baker: The, that we had experienced and that our elders and ancestors had experienced. And it shocked me that child sexual abuse was on both sides of my family tree. And that it happened for generations and generations and generations. And nobody protected the girls in my family. Nobody protected the women in my family.
[00:06:31] Dr. Jill Baker: And I was instantly enraged. And learning to use my voice as a tool to explore the why behind these rationales. And so I went directly to my elders, God rest her soul, went to my great grandmother and asked her like, did you know what happened to my, you know, my people, did you know what happened to me?
[00:06:50] Dr. Jill Baker: And I told her what happened to me and she had no idea. And she told me to bury it and to move on. And I told her like, I can't bury this. How old was she? My great granny was, if I was, Oh, maybe this was five years ago. So she was probably in her eighties. She was in her
[00:07:11] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: eighties. And you had the courage to say, to say, I'm going to talk, I'm talking to great
[00:07:17] Dr. Jill Baker: grandma and I had to know why she didn't talk to her daughter who could talk to my mother, who could talk to me.
[00:07:26] Dr. Jill Baker: I wanted to know. And I think that ignorance is bliss. Yes. I think that sometimes we don't want to know because it's so traumatic to know. And, and then
[00:07:40] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: that means when you know, you got to do, you got to do
[00:07:44] Dr. Jill Baker: something right. Right. You don't know, you don't have to. Right. So I think, and I know that it's triggering and challenge it to be accountable to who you are kind of there to protect.
[00:07:57] Dr. Jill Baker: But I told her that the ball was dropped with me. That I, I was not protected and it hurt to reflect on how I wasn't protected. And it triggered me and I couldn't sleep thinking about the things that happened, not only to me, but to all of the young women in my family who had experienced this. And nobody did anything.
[00:08:20] Dr. Jill Baker: We, we protected the, the, the pedophiles. We protected them. We did not protect the girls. So it made me angry and it made me really start to discover my voice. I was at that time, my, my marriage was in shambles because he did not really give me enough empathy during that time, really allowed me to change and evolve with this new information and this newfound voice.
[00:08:48] Dr. Jill Baker: And I started to realize that there was some components of that relationship that were not in alignment with who I was becoming. And at that point, right, it really, it was like I was angry and pissed, if you will, about the way that I felt manipulated in the way that I felt at the time. And I wasn't sleeping, Jill.
[00:09:09] Dr. Jill Baker: I actually was dealing with insomnia. And as a teacher, you know, my teacher friends were concerned because I'm coming to work after trying to sleep, but not being able to sleep. And I started to become delirious. And my principal, who's actually a good friend of mine, she was like, I need you to go home.
[00:09:28] Dr. Jill Baker: And I was like, what? We have career day today. I invited all these people. I'm still trying to function in this, you know, in, in this manic state that I was in. And she was like, no, you need to go on home. And ex husband was embarrassed by that. And Also, it was some things going on between us that I just really couldn't accept anymore.
[00:09:51] Dr. Jill Baker: I didn't like the space that he and I were in and then looking at how... Now,
[00:09:55] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: infertility takes a toll on relationships, but...
[00:09:58] Dr. Jill Baker: Yeah, it
[00:09:59] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: definitely, this is other layers and
[00:10:01] Dr. Jill Baker: other, Oh, yes, absolutely. I didn't like the dynamic that he had with my daughter. I was like, if this is the only child we're going to have, I need you to have permission for her.
[00:10:11] Dr. Jill Baker: I didn't see it. And I spoke up about it and I got gas lit and I didn't, I couldn't tolerate that anymore. So we started to have more combative issues. And you were against
[00:10:20] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: finding your voice, getting your voice back and your.
[00:10:26] Dr. Jill Baker: And that didn't sit well. So he told the family that, you know, I was psychologically losing it and they, they staged like an intervention.
[00:10:36] Dr. Jill Baker: And I told them that, no, I hadn't been sleeping, but I'm not a threat to myself. I'm not a threat to, you know, anyone here, but if I'm angry, I'm going to say, I'm angry, I should have the right to be angry. And I don't think I was afforded that right. I was hospitalized. They called the police. I was put in handcuffs, put in the ambulance, and hospitalized because my family didn't really want to deal with that trauma.
[00:11:01] Dr. Jill Baker: We've talked about, I
[00:11:02] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: still can't believe that this happened to you,
[00:11:04] Dr. Jill Baker: but we've talked about this before. No, I warned you. The Chicago police came in my home. This would all,
[00:11:10] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: I mean, I would never see something like this happen to a white woman.
[00:11:13] Dr. Jill Baker: No, we wouldn't. We would not
[00:11:16] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: have allowed something like that to happen.
[00:11:19] Dr. Jill Baker: And I, you know, looking back, I've told my family and my friends this that looking back, I wish that I knew how to accept help and knew how to like let go of that pride that black women get when someone is trying to help you like, Nope, I don't need no help. Ain't nothing wrong with me. I'm good.
[00:11:37] Dr. Jill Baker: Just give me this and I'm good. Like my family literally got on their knees and was begging me to go. to the hospital and I couldn't let that, that dynamic of, you know, being a strong black woman go. And so they forced me to, and they sent me to the hospital. I was on a psychological hold for, I think, five days, and I knew that I was somewhere that I didn't belong.
[00:12:02] Dr. Jill Baker: You know, I had to remind the staff many times, like I have a master's degree. And you're not going to speak to me like I'm less than, like I'm nothing and treat me like, you know, I'm a child because I'm having a hard time right now. Right. And it was, it was one of those Scarlett O'Hara moments, like, as God is my witness, I will never be in this situation again where a person has this much control over where I lay my head and, and who gets to take care of me.
[00:12:31] Dr. Jill Baker: It was just all of my rights as a individual. Were away. Woman,
[00:12:36] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: as a mother,
[00:12:37] Dr. Jill Baker: as a professional. Yeah, because I couldn't see my daughter during that time. She was staying with my aunts. But my family collaborated with my husband to my ex-husband to do that because he told them that's what was best for me.
[00:12:51] Dr. Jill Baker: And, and they believed, they believed him. They believed him and not me, who they knew my whole life. Right. It's still hard to accept, but I understand because we don't get a lot of practice with that. So I, it's, it's, you know, I forgive and it's, I can't forget, but I do forgive because I know that we don't have a lot of experience in dealing with these type of dynamics.
[00:13:13] Dr. Jill Baker: We call people crazy and crazy. The umbrella of crazy has anxiety, depression, PTSD, schizophrenia, all of these different labels fall under crazy for us. And we don't really differentiate between the illnesses. Right. So I had that hold. I came home and I was even more angry. And that's when the relationship started to close out.
[00:13:35] Dr. Jill Baker: Cause I was like, I can't, my trust is gone. And I know you think you did what you were supposed to do, but I cannot get in a space to trust you again. Right. So I did file for divorce and It was a hard time for my daughter and I I had to apologize to her for, you know, going through those things and putting her through those things.
[00:13:57] Dr. Jill Baker: But that same year that I went through divorce, I did start my. Doctoral program. And because I just really wanted to understand what happened to me too. Right, right. Really, and psychology has always been fascinated to me, even from, you know, undergrad years and taking my little classes. I just didn't know I was, you know, quote unquote, smart enough to.
[00:14:20] Dr. Jill Baker: Sustain a career as a psychologist. So a friend of mine a soror of mine actually got her PhD in community psychology at National Lewis and is a sexual communication and empowerment specialist. And she would, she has a not for profit has all of these curriculums that she wrote for our district is the only person that provides sexual empowerment services for black women and girls.
[00:14:45] Dr. Jill Baker: Right. Some of that. So, I applied for the program and got in and I started to explore community approaches to the barriers that Black women face when they are engaging in a, a wellness journey and dealing with traumatic events. How do we navigate that as a community?
[00:15:05] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: Look, I'm still, look, the fact that you came out of that situation.
[00:15:12] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: You were hospitalized against your will for five days and you're like, I need more education .
[00:15:24] Dr. Jill Baker: I just wanted to understand. I know. No. You know,
[00:15:27] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: just a come,
[00:15:31] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: I dunno from those,
[00:15:36] Dr. Jill Baker: Jill, that they didn't break me. Okay. I had to because you know exactly. Once you go to a hospital, everybody think that they just write you off. And
[00:15:45] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: I, I know what, you know, my mom has been in, in those spaces a lot. So I know exactly what you're talking about.
[00:15:54] Dr. Jill Baker: It was horrific. Nobody
[00:15:57] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: doesn't want, no one should be there who doesn't have to be there.
[00:16:00] Dr. Jill Baker: No. Anywhere. You shouldn't. You absolutely shouldn't. Psychiatric force. And then you, you feel a sense of resentment for those who put you there. Of course, I just couldn't shake it. I was just like, y'all know me like how I came from y'all. So y'all should know that if I have a moment that I'm going to bounce back.
[00:16:18] Dr. Jill Baker: So how,
[00:16:20] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: so how, so how's your relationship with your mom? You know, it's been more, a couple of more years has passed. So how's your relationship with your mom and your family now?
[00:16:33] Dr. Jill Baker: So at first it was really rough and I took space away from my family, from my mom in particular, and kind of let the chips fall.
[00:16:42] Dr. Jill Baker: And then after, especially after the hospitalization, there was a lot of anger and resentment there. But I think that my PhD definitely was I'm going to show them. Kind of moment and just to let people know like I still am myself and I'm still that Educator and that's that lifetime learner that just went through something I had something to prove and they're so proud of me like they're so proud of me and so happy that you know They see that transformation that happened at that rising from the Phoenix Good.
[00:17:18] Dr. Jill Baker: Dr. Vanessa now. Hey, Dr. Daughter. Hey, you know, it's, it's really cool. And then for my area of expertise to be in photo voice and participatory action research,
[00:17:33] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: you know, you're speaking my, my heart to my public health
[00:17:36] Dr. Jill Baker: heart. Isn't it the best? I just love participatory action research, that P A R approach to understanding our community, specifically our community that people don't really go into and try to understand.
[00:17:51] Dr. Jill Baker: It was an amazing experience to hear from Black women what, what gets in the way of self care.
[00:17:55] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: Right, from their voices, not somebody else
[00:18:00] Dr. Jill Baker: telling So I literally got to see what was in the way and what was creating a strength and a struggle as it related to self care with income, marital status, religion, vulnerability, you know, all of these concepts that we are constantly dealing with as, you know, with this intersectionality of being black and being a woman and unable to separate those identities.
[00:18:30] Dr. Jill Baker: How do we engage in wellness? How do we. Resist what society tells us we're supposed to be and do what's actually essential and necessary to be well and to have joy, not temporary happiness, but joy, joy. There's
[00:18:45] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: a difference. It's a difference. What were some, a couple of the most surprising things from your, your research?
[00:18:54] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: So surprisingly about self care and
[00:18:57] Dr. Jill Baker: barriers. I think it was very surprising that a lot of women were experiencing similar situations that I was with that role imbalance. You know, mommy, missus, and me are those three roles that we are expected to play, but me is probably the smallest component of those three.
[00:19:17] Dr. Jill Baker: And if you are missus, mommy, you get, you lose yourself. And I noticed that with my research, I felt that I completely empathize with that because. I did that. When I became a wife, I was like, I'm going to be super wife. He's like, I'm going to be a better wife. You know, she's not going to have a better mother.
[00:19:37] Dr. Jill Baker: She's, her friends are going to be like, wow, that's, their mom did that. I forgot about Vanessa and the things that Vanessa enjoy. Like Vanessa is the Alpha Kappa Alpha girl. Sometimes you forget. You sometimes you forget. Yeah, I forgot who I was, Jill. You do. No, you do.
[00:19:54] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: It's, it's, It's part of the whole, it's part of being a mom.
[00:20:00] Dr. Jill Baker: I just, but to be
[00:20:01] honest.
[00:20:01] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: And they don't have a partner.
[00:20:03] Dr. Jill Baker: You figure what you like to do. The partner of like, me being the humble, meek, quiet. Right. You know, you know, really speaking up for myself. Yeah. But I just couldn't be that girl anymore. And. I, I had to recall that girl who put herself through college, the girl who went and got that teaching job with no teaching experience, no degree in education when they did that.
[00:20:29] Dr. Jill Baker: I had to remember that girl who taught with a pulmonary embolism on the first day of school. Right. I had to remember who I was, right? This research helped me to get reconnected with the bad B in me. Right. It was very, a very exciting and empowering experience. Something else that was surprising was how, how protective we were of being the mom, that mom, you know, how, how, how very serious we were about making sure the babies had it and making sure whoever else had it.
[00:21:04] Dr. Jill Baker: But when you try to shift that love back towards self. We dodging. We rejecting it. We thinking we don't deserve it. We thinking we need to be humble. No, you deserve all the things. Everything that comes to you, you deserve it because you work for it, you strive for it, you, it should be yours. So why would we send that love?
[00:21:26] Dr. Jill Baker: We could tell, we can encourage everybody else to go do whatever they want to do, right?
[00:21:34] Dr. Jill Baker: Like take
[00:21:35] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: that that workshop or do the yoga
[00:21:38] Dr. Jill Baker: class. Right. And it's like, no, no, we don't do it for ourselves. You start to feel like we're imposters, right? Right. No, you're that chick and you need to remember it. Write it down on your mirror and look and tell yourself that every day. Or you feel guilty. Yes.
[00:21:51] Dr. Jill Baker: And some people exploit the guilt. Right. So another really surprising aspect was resistance. How do black women explore resistance as a tool to engage in their self care more frequently or expand their self care capacity? You know, sometimes resistance can be subtle. It can be as simple as I'm not coming straight home.
[00:22:15] Dr. Jill Baker: I'm going to my Zumba class or I'm going to take this trip. I know that, you know, we have budget, but I got my own money. I'm going to make sure that my feet in the sand because I know I get seasonal depression. So putting , that's why
[00:22:29] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: I just went to Mexico. It took.
[00:22:35] Dr. Jill Baker: That's me,
[00:22:36] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: I know a lot of y'all are the same way. I was like, I can't go another few months without seeing some blue water and putting my feet
[00:22:43] Dr. Jill Baker: in some white. And I'm not going to be feel bad about it. Right. And it was that resistance, that, that light resistance that starts subtly, but then develops into a, you know, where I got with that rage when I accepted, like, I'm not settling for less than what I deserve.
[00:23:01] Dr. Jill Baker: Right. Right. Right. So resistance, there were aspects of resistance, but that was an area that I would love to see black women explore their capacity building there as it relates to self care. Because we, we good with resistance when it comes to the political, when it comes to getting out here.
[00:23:19] Dr. Jill Baker: Obviously we come from a history of that, but when it comes to using resistance as a tool to develop your radical self care capacity. It's, it's not something that we use. We, we usually submit to the, the mommy role. We submit to the missus role, the sister role, the professional role, the daughter role, the caregiver role.
[00:23:41] Dr. Jill Baker: I
[00:23:42] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: can't take that way. Right,
[00:23:46] Dr. Jill Baker: right. So what happens when, who benefits from when you decide to put yourself first? A whole lot of things that crumble, but they'll be all right. They'll be all right. Because without, without you being all right, nothing's going to happen.
[00:24:04] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: We're not all right. The whole ship will sail.
[00:24:06] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: We'll, we'll not sail the ship. We'll, come on.
[00:24:12] Dr. Jill Baker: That's it. There'll be no ship. But I've learned a lot in this research. My self care hotspots thinking about how we look at ourselves. Thinking about how other, others look at us, that external judgment. Right. Thinking about those role imbalances, those are your self care hotspots.
[00:24:30] Dr. Jill Baker: We want to stay away from those. But your self care cool zones, like your story sharing, talking about and being vulnerable with people you can be safe with, and tell and share your story with. It's very powerful and expands your capacity for self care. You understanding that vulnerability and understanding how to be open and honest will expand your self care.
[00:24:51] Dr. Jill Baker: Getting connected to nature will
[00:24:55] Dr. Jill Baker: expand your capacity for self care and wellness. I made an intentional effort to connect to the seasons and all, all four parts of the year, cause I will get. I don't know how y'all.
[00:25:07] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: I mean, it was 30 degrees here today. I don't know how y'all do that. I
[00:25:15] Dr. Jill Baker: don't know how y'all do that. I ain't saying stay out there for long, but take you a couple breaths.
[00:25:22] Dr. Jill Baker: Go ahead and be present in the moment and come your boy back in the house for you. Get frostbitten, you know, but I would go last year. I would even in the icy cold, like it is right now, I would go to the lake. Front first thing in the morning, get some beautiful shots of the Lake Michigan icicles on the lake front and reflect on those moments and think about the joy, the simple things, the nature, the culture, the community.
[00:25:47] Dr. Jill Baker: Those are the pillars of. Radical self care expansion in our community. We can't get there without each other. We have to learn how to have these conversations together and not think that we're dealing with these things in silos. Especially Black women. Right. We can come together and have these conversations and expand our self care capacity.
[00:26:07] Dr. Jill Baker: We don't
[00:26:07] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: have a choice. Like, we have our survival. Not just our survival. But as you said, our joy. It
[00:26:16] Dr. Jill Baker: depends on it. It's essential. So my thing right now is sharing my story and I have a self care lab here in Chicago where women and organizations contact me and I come in and talk about how we can expand self care capacity in that particular setting and in that particular context.
[00:26:36] Dr. Jill Baker: I've done a lot of work with teachers, addressing teacher burnout and student burnout. That's real. You know, it's great work. I love working with health and professionals, the nurses, teachers, the folks who are on the front line that have a hard time giving back to themselves for lack of time and lack of, you know, that capacity and understanding because we're steady pouring out, always pouring out.
[00:26:58] Dr. Jill Baker: So. It's my job to remind us to pour back in, reverse it. Well,
[00:27:03] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: you're, you know, as you know, you are, we'll be the the, the self care expert, you know, for me, maternal health 9 1 1. And we got to start doing, we haven't done it, but we got to start doing some lives in IG.
[00:27:22] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: We got to start doing those again.
[00:27:24] Dr. Jill Baker: Absolutely. I will be there for all of that. All the things, you know, I'm so excited to align my
[00:27:31] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: work. Regular, regular, regular conversations and because they're so key and so important and so vital. So the last question I wanted to ask you before we part for this show is what guidance do you have for survivors of infertility?
[00:27:52] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: And survivors of a
[00:27:54] Dr. Jill Baker: hysterectomy. I would first say, love on yourself. And tell yourself, forgive yourself. I want them to know that it's not something that they did or intended to happen. So, I want to start with that sense of love and acceptance. Self acceptance and definitely seek a therapist if you don't have one before this journey.
[00:28:21] Dr. Jill Baker: Even before they start this journey, I want women to get a therapist and make sure you have that communication tool so that you can speak life to what you're dealing with and, and be able to articulate. The different ebbs and flows of infertility, but it's definitely I have to encourage self love and self acceptance post hysterectomy because I really felt like I had let my family down and could not be the bearer the.
[00:28:52] Dr. Jill Baker: The breeder, if you will, of a new generation, if you will, but I had to get to a space of forgiveness of myself and know that, you know, this journey, I didn't ask for it, you know, it happened, who knows what caused the issues. I didn't have the best care. Please get in community with other women who are going through this walk with you and dealing with this walk so you can get the nuances of what doctors are great, which doctors are not.
[00:29:19] Dr. Jill Baker: Exactly. Because a lot of them are in it for those insurance checks. And that's it. You know, we end up being the you know, the, the sacrificial lamb, you know, and so I think that, you know, being very knowledgeable with other black women and know that this is something that they do to us all the time, you know, it's, we have medical mistrust for a reason, it's a reason why we don't like going to the doctor and we have roots and T's and all of these different yeah.
[00:29:48] Dr. Jill Baker: Eastern type medicines because medical, the medical field never really set out to serve us. So, it's really important that you seek out doctors that look like you, that can help you through whatever stage of the journey you're in. So, self love, self acceptance, lots of audible, listen to other women's stories, and learn from those stories so that you can get to a space of self love and acceptance.
[00:30:14] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: I love it. Self love and self acceptance of all Black women, especially those of you going through infertility right now, going through any major maternal health reproductive journey. Dr. Goddard said it. Self love, self acceptance.
[00:30:37] Dr. Jill Baker: Yes. And no criticism of self, like leave that in a previous year. Don't bring that into the new year.
[00:30:45] Dr. Jill Baker: We always measuring ourselves, gauging against other. You know, the parameter is always other women around us that we compare ourselves to. You on this walk, this is solo walk that you on. Everybody's journey is different. Everybody gets a different results because of different reasons, different genetic makeups.
[00:31:03] Dr. Jill Baker: And you didn't ask for this journey. So you have to accept where you are. And I just wish I had someone to talk to me. And wish I knew other black women or, or sought out other black women in the fourth, in the, in the pre stages of my fertility journey. But in the post, it was very, very helpful to talk with women who look like me dealing with the same issues.
[00:31:28] Dr. Jill Baker: And that's another
[00:31:28] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: reason why I'm going to be a fertility coach because we need it.
[00:31:33] Dr. Jill Baker: We do. We need more of that. And it's not enough of fertility coaches that look like black women, right? And it's not, we don't have to, we don't feel comfortable as it is dealing with. medical professionals. So it, we don't want to talk about the real stuff that's going on with our bodies.
[00:31:52] Dr. Jill Baker: I have a friend, like I said, that is a sexual empowerment specialist. She did a project with Stanford and it was a cancer research study. And she came in and they wanted to know why was women not really getting their screeners done early? And She went in and she said, well Miss Josephine why is it that you don't want to get your, your cancer screening?
[00:32:14] Dr. Jill Baker: And she said, well, you know, I don't want to take my, I don't want to be naked in front of these people. I don't want to be naked in front of them. And that was very profound to this university, but they didn't care about the why she didn't want to disrobe. They wanted to know, how did you know to call her Ms.
[00:32:31] Dr. Jill Baker: Josephine? Huh. Right. And she was like, what? They said, how did you know? To call her Ms. Josephine. And she said, I was raised like that. Raised cultural. That's something we do. We raise like that. Right? And those
[00:32:46] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: are things respecting our
[00:32:47] Dr. Jill Baker: elders. Respecting our elders is the rule number one that you get right.
[00:32:52] Dr. Jill Baker: But that's a expertise that these universities where all of these millions of dollars don't have. That's
[00:32:59] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: like Tuskegee with.
[00:33:02] Dr. Jill Baker: Let's talk about it because these universities go in and they prod and prick for information and they leave and they publish their paper and the, you know, the, the community they want to serve is still in the condition that they are
[00:33:16] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: in right and feel used.
[00:33:19] Dr. Jill Baker: They need, they need researchers like you and I, who are trained in participatory action research that can go in and, and actually build the trust and build the relationship and don't just leave the relationship behind. Once you get the information, right, exactly.
[00:33:37] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: Preach sister. This is why we can be here for
[00:33:41] Dr. Jill Baker: two hours.
[00:33:44] Dr. Jill Baker: I got something on the spirit.
[00:33:47] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: That's why we can be talking for
[00:33:53] Dr. Jill Baker: two hours.
[00:33:56] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: Thank you so much, my sister. Thank you all the audience for tuning in this week. I'd like to thank my very, very special guest, Dr. Vanessa Goodhart, who
[00:34:10] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: is doing her thing, is engaged, has a new blended family, and maybe transitioning to academia full time. So I'm so, so proud and so happy for you and Everything that's happening for you is supposed to happen because all the work
[00:34:29] Dr. Jill Baker: you've been doing I receive that you're
[00:34:32] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: receiving all the gifts for everything that you've been putting out into the world.
[00:34:37] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: So please let the listeners know that they're going to want to know how they can find and connect with you
[00:34:43] Dr. Jill Baker: on social media. So I am on Facebook and Instagram at. Reclaim, R E C L A I N, self care, S E L F C A R E, Chicago, C H I C A G O, and then you can also find me at Dr. D R V Goodar, G O O D A R, V Goodar, G O O D A R, and I also have a website www.
[00:35:13] Dr. Jill Baker: reclaimselfcarechicago. com.
[00:35:16] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: Thank you, my sister. And for the rest of everyone listening, you can find the. Maternal Health 9 1 1 podcast on all platforms where you listen to podcast shows and on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. You can also follow me on Twitter, Instagram at Dr. Joe Baker, and you can also find the podcast on my website, ww Dr.
[00:35:41] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: Joe Baker com. Feel free to email me, dmm me to share your questions, thoughts, and if you wanna be on the show. So, thank you all for tuning in this week.
[00:36:00] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: Thank you for listening to this episode of Maternal Health 911. Please follow the show on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Feel free to DM me with your questions and thoughts, or to share your infertility, fertility, and maternal health story. For more information on this podcast and your host, Visit www.
[00:36:21] Dr. Vanessa Goodar: drjoebaker. com. Listening to the show on Apple podcast, please rate and review it. It really helps the show and the feedback is welcome.
Insights from Dr. Vanessa Goodar on Maternal Health and Fertility Treatment In a two-part episode with Dr. Vanessa Goodar, she provided valuable insight on why maternal health is an emergency in America, as well as her personal fertility journey. She also spoke about the role that race plays in fertility treatment. It's understandable that experiencing infertility can have a profound psychological impact on women. It's common to feel isolated and alone during this time, which is why it's important to seek out supportive communities. Organizations such as Fertility for Colored Girls offer a safe space for women to share their stories and connect with others who can relate to their struggles.
When it comes to advocating for yourself during pregnancy, it's crucial to strike a balance between listening to medical professionals and asserting your own needs. One way to achieve this is to educate yourself about your options and communicate your preferences clearly. Remember, you are the expert on your own body and should feel empowered to make informed decisions about your care.
If you've experienced a hysterectomy or struggled with infertility, it's essential to remember that you are not alone. There are many resources available to help you navigate this challenging time, and there's no shame in seeking help when you need it. Take care of yourself and prioritize your well-being throughout your journey.
Guest Bio:
Dr. Vanessa Goodar is an adjunct professor in the Community Psychology PhD program teaching cross-cultural communication dynamics in context at National-Louis University. A veteran Chicago Public Schools special education teacher of 15 years and a cultural-community self-care practitioner, Dr. Goodar founded a Black women’s community self-care lab and consultancy called Reclaim Self Care Chicago in 2020 to facilitate hybrid self care capacity workshops with communities and individuals. Using photographic storytelling methods centering helping and healing professional women who identify with characteristics of the Strong Black Woman archetype, Dr. Goodar’s research highlighted potential barriers to Black women’s radical self-care, such as the Mommy, Mrs. and Me’ role imbalance, intra-cultural judgment perception, income, marital status and self-criticism. This project took place during the COVID-19 pandemic and helped Dr. Goodar to heal from her own personal battles with secondary infertility, endometriosis, involuntary hysterectomy, depression and divorce. Adverse and protective life experiences led Dr. Goodar through a transformational journey of self-discovery through the lens of Black community vulnerability, participatory action research and photography. Dr. Goodar hopes to expand her regional programming and low/no cost radical community self-care education that expand engagement in nature, culture, intergenerational community prevention, health promotion and wellness.
Learn more about Dr. Jill here.
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