Ep.22/Perinatal and Neonatal Birth Inequities and The Experiences Of Families Who Have Preemie Babies with Dr. Jess Daigle (Copy)
Ep.22/Perinatal and Neonatal Birth Inequities and The Experiences Of Families Who Have Preemie Babies with Dr. Jess Daigle
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Note: This transcription has been created with a help of an AI thus errors and mistranscriptions may be present.
Episode 22 Dr Jess Daigle
Dr. Jess Daigle: [00:00:00] Hello? Maternal Health 911? What's your emergency?
Dr. Jill Baker: Hi, I'm Dr. Jo Baker. I'm a wife, a mother, a community health scholar, an executive director, and a fertility coach. More than 12 years ago, I was on my own infertility journey. Since then, I've made it my personal mission to help anyone who is on their own journey. To become a parent as well as shed light on infertility and maternal health experiences of BIPOC women and couples.
Now let's begin this week's episode of maternal health. 911.
Greetings listeners. Welcome to this very special episode of maternal health [00:01:00] 911. I'm so thrilled to be with you all today and talking to you. With a very dear sister friend and colleague about a very special topic and something that's very important, particularly in the BIPOC community. I recently came last week I was an attendee at an annual conference for Once Upon a Preemie LLC.
Where their focus and emphasis is on bringing awareness to perinatal and neonatal birth inequities. And we're not doing a good job. We're not doing a good job. And if you all don't know, some of the current stats. Overall in this country, 1 in 10 babies are born preterm in the United States.
But relative to women of color, and particularly black [00:02:00] women and black babies, the rate of preterm birth in the US is highest for black infants. And then followed by American Indian Alaska natives. And so we have to do something about this. This is an emergency, this one of the show. I'm so thankful today to have the brilliant game changer, Dr.
Jess Daigle, who is going to shed light on the topic from her perspective, from her own personal experiences, from her professional work. All the things that she is doing to make real changes to this very complicated issue and disparity that is just not getting better. And we all have to do our part in it.
So with that said, Dr. Jess Daigle is a board certified pediatrician. [00:03:00] Neonatal Pediatric Hospitalist and founder, CEO of Mom and Me MD. She's a proud mother of two kids born prematurely, with her son born at 31 weeks and staying in the NICU for five weeks. She has a concierge medical practice in Atlanta, Georgia, that provides local in home virtual care services to newborns with a focus on NICU babies.
along with education and support for their mothers families to make the transition from home from the NICU easier and less overwhelming and this was also something that was Talked about in this conference, too, and we're going to talk more about that. She offers life coaching for NICU moms to help them balance life after the NICU and how mothers can be a confident mother.
Her passion lies in championing the health and well being of [00:04:00] postpartum NICU mothers and their infants and teaching moms to be empowered at it. Her overarching aspiration involves consulting with health care institutions. to cultivate nurturing NICU environments and building her businesses which guide and support NICU families on their unique journeys.
She has been featured on many podcasts including Pregnancy Pearls with Dr. Plenty and the Birth Trauma Mama podcast and is a co author with 46 other women physicians in Made for More physician entrepreneurs practicing medicine and living life on their own terms. She lives in South Atlanta with her husband and two kids.
So maternal health 9 1 1 without further ado. Let's welcome Dr. Jess to the show.
Dr. Jess Daigle: Thank you. Thank you so much. Hey, I'm so excited to be here, [00:05:00] especially to talk about this topic, which, you know, we. I'm so pleased that maternal health and black maternal health has been getting the attention it has recently. And one of the things that I love about it is that the conversation is not dying off because you know how it is.
A lot of things in the U S becomes a fad is celebrated or intense for that moment. And then people go on and live their life. And then when the next series event happens, then we get all mad again. And it's you have to keep the momentum going up. But one of the things that does need more attention is the effects on the infants, which is why I'm so glad that there are organizations like One Supreme out there and why we're having this conversation today.
Dr. Jill Baker: Yeah, so I have to tell you I was so just floored and hurt, when I heard, the new numbers New Jersey itself is really bad as well. And, The maternal mortality rate for the state of New Jersey has gone down, but for black [00:06:00] women it actually has gotten worse. So one of the things I want to ask you, the first question that I ask all my guests is why is maternal health an emergency in this country?
Dr. Jess Daigle: Because all life stems from having a mother. It really, it sounds you would think it would be such a deep answer, but it's really not like we're all here through the process of someone giving birth to us. And so if we're really going to keep. Being on this earth and being well, that process has to continue.
That's why I always say I have a job, no matter what, as long as people keep having babies, I'm always going to have someone to see. And so it's an emergency just in that sense, but then it's like human life. I think that we have just forgotten about the humanism of this whole process. And sometimes it makes me irate that we have to explain things that should be common sense.
It's like [00:07:00] the fact that we even happen to have these conversations. To me is even nerve wracking because it's like, it's a, she's a person. This is a person that's having a baby. That's a person that that alone should propel us into positive action. And yet we still find ourselves in the same circumstances.
Dr. Jill Baker: Exactly. Exactly. And that as humans, and I recently interviewed Shawnee Benson Gibson star. She says, is that, all women have wounds in the carrier of life. And so all of us should feel that this is an emergency. Yeah. Because exactly what you said.
Dr. Jess Daigle: Yeah, I agree. And
Dr. Jill Baker: it's not happening.
No. So from your perspective, related to preterm birth, In particular, why do you think [00:08:00] that BIPOC women are more at risk for preterm birth?
Dr. Jess Daigle: I think it stems from, it starts from the pregnancy and even before pregnancy. So You know, there's been a lot of research. We've always learned about social determinants of health and actually in med school.
I don't really think a lot of time was spent on it. I think it was just like a flyby phenomenon of just understanding, but really we're learning and there's evidence out there and research out there that shows like people's livelihoods affect their health. And so if you have a mom that's already Okay.
financially or health wise struggling that gets in a position of pregnancy, which is already in a stressful event, then it's just going to be a trickle down effect. And so I was not surprised by the numbers from the C. D. C. That didn't take about to show that there was actually a 3 percent more increased because If the mothers are impacted, there [00:09:00] is, it just makes sense that their babies would be impacted.
So even when I posted on LinkedIn, I've said, we really need to, there needs to be a lot of preconception counseling more in the community. But even then, once those families are, those mamas are pregnant, they really need a team of folks. That is dedicated to them from first trimester all the way through into the postpartum is to piecemeal.
Even with the work that I do in the fourth trimester is still I still recognize that from the first moment that this mom, she's pregnant and even before that, there needs to have already been intervention we need she needs to have her OB her midwife she needs to have a counselor. She needs a social worker.
She might need a nutritionist like all of these people like she needs a needs assessment. Hey, you're speaking my public health language. No, it's true though. It's who are you? Who are you? Where do you live? Where do we see [00:10:00] that this is? Current moment in your life can, will propel you into a certain pathway.
This is, it's no different than when you go to college and you have to meet with somebody, an advisor, and they're like, all right, if you're going to graduate, this is what you need to do. Like they do that, right? We put so much emphasis on that. In a business, you have to have a plan and this is what we think if you want to be successful and have profit, you're going to need to do this and this.
Why we're not putting that same intention and focus on a
Dr. Jill Baker: material model.
Dr. Jess Daigle: If we think that has to work for other things in life, we can't just really nail anything else. Then why are we doing this to our mothers when it's something as important as bringing a life
Dr. Jill Baker: to them. Oh gosh, I love that. The whole holistic.
Perspective. It's true.
Dr. Jess Daigle: Affects the mom. It does. It does. And it's once I had kids that I started to think that way because then I started to look at my own life when I tried to compartmentalize. It was not easy [00:11:00] to do because we're it is all connected, right? It is all connected, right?
Dr. Jill Baker: So let's and I think you know that I think that's a very common kind of Theme that those of us who have experiences and potentially traumatic experience, traumatic birthing experiences are often propelled into this line of work.
So would that something similar for you? When you got pregnant, first pregnancy, like what, yeah, what was that
Dr. Jess Daigle: like for you? Okay. So I actually wanted to be a neonatologist from young. I always, yes, I always from 10 years of age, actually.
Dr. Jill Baker: So I always know that
Dr. Jess Daigle: is what you want it to be.
I'm serious. Like you can talk to my mom about it. No, I have always been I was raised Christian. And so from young, my mom always said I was an old soul. But I, from young, I always wanted to live a [00:12:00] life of purpose. And I always had this need to take care of children. Like, All my family members, they had babies.
I was caring for them. Like I was babysitting or whatever. Like it was natural. Like I didn't even have to think about it. I babysat for people at my church. It was just my thing. And so then I thought I was going to do child psychology. I love like the way people think and what motivates and behavior, all that stuff fascinates me.
And I used to watch like the PBS channel, the public broadcasting station, like reading rainbow, all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So I They used to show like a person working with kids with things like tools and toys and I used to be fascinated by it. And then I ended up reading this book.
I just got curious, like I used to go to the library in the back when people used to do that. Check out books.
Dr. Jill Baker: Me too! With 20
Dr. Jess Daigle: books. Yep. Yep. And I used to, I started to check out books when I was about 10 about babies. Like I just want to learn stuff. And I came across this book called the long dying of baby Andrew.
And I actually still have that book, [00:13:00] like as old as it looks now. And it was about this family that was fighting the healthcare system for the right to make a decision about their micro preemie because they did not want to subject him to all the heroics and medicine. They thought he should be able to.
die with dignity. I didn't think, we don't have to make him live and things like that. And that was around the time that surfactant was coming out. So for people listening to medicine, it helps your lungs to breathe easier and preemies are have a shortage of that. By being born early.
So anyway I then came to my mom and I said, I want to be this type of doctor. And I like Google, I was right around the time it was probably coming out. And I don't know if it was Google at the time. It might've been something else. But I remember having to go to IBM computers with the big old block screen.
And I looked up, it's this website still there today called neonatology on the web. And it tells you what you need to do to work with sick infants. And so I was like, all right this is what I need to do and set myself on that path. Okay. [00:14:00] Yeah. And my journey wasn't without like little hiccups here and there, as most of us have, I got into medical school, I got into pediatric residency in my first year of my entering year, I got pregnant.
And then I had a miscarriage. Oh yeah. Yeah. I actually just, that's okay. I appreciate that. I actually just posted talking about that on my social media to be living that it's funny. My husband, my son came and gave me a hug yesterday. He was like, Oh mom, I'm thinking about baby Isaiah. Cause I told my oldest.
That I have now about it, but so I went through that experience and then I got pregnant again and then because of that experience because you know how we do, and I talked about like forgiveness and the guild and how you try to reason and things like that happen to you're always trying to find meaning.
In it. And I hadn't, at the time I was like, Oh, I hadn't bed rested, like my OB said. And so that was my, that was what I was holding on to. So then I, when I got pregnant [00:15:00] again and she said I was starting to exhibit some of those same, like early like uterine irritability and my cervix was funneling, which means it's opening from the inside at the actual end.
I was like, I got to go on bed rest. I got to go in the hospital because I was like, apparently whatever I thought was bed resting, I just was like, I need to do something different. So that way I could justify if I had the same outcome, I at least knew I tried to make a different choice.
Yeah. So I was in the hospital for nine weeks on bed rest. Yes. Yes, I was. Me and Netflix and the DVR became good friends in the hospital. Okay. Wow. Okay. So I have to
Dr. Jill Baker: ask you this. As a person, a woman, it certainly sounds, very similar in that the hustle and the going and checking the boxes.
Yeah. So somebody said, sit down. That's not about right. Yeah. How was it for you to be in the hospital for nine?
Dr. Jess Daigle: I watched movies. I [00:16:00] read books. I cried every Monday because I was happy that I was still pregnant. But then I was like, man, this is a long time to go. If I really make it term. And then like around when we got to 20, cause I went in at 22 weeks.
So when I got to 24 weeks, my OB was like okay. Now we're, she considered that a good viable, at least at the minimum. And she gave me steroids. She was like, she's that's what you're doing for living. We're still in a precarious state. So I got to 28 weeks.
She gave me another set of steroids. She's okay, so you had to deliver now, statistically, the chances are a lot better with different things and survival. And we had a couple of like near calls where I would start to feel more where I get rushed to labor and deliveries. They put me on some fluids, calm down my contractions, and then we'd be like, okay, good.
And I go back. So that happened two times. And on the third time I called her, I was 31 weeks, six days. And I was like, No this is real this time. So this baby is coming. Okay. Okay. Yeah. He was born at, my son that's [00:17:00] now 10, was born at 31 weeks. And he required intubation at first to give him some of the surfactant that I mentioned earlier.
But then he actually came off the second day the second to, into the third day, he was on room air actually. No respiratory support. They was like, he's like super freaky. Oh, so yeah. And so he only then became, jaundice treatment and feeding and growing. Yeah. Which is for people who are listening like that just means like eating enough to grow.
So I was pumping, bringing milk every day and all the things. And so he came home right around five weeks. And like most NICU families, depending on what happens in the nicu, right? Sometimes if it's kids that still have a lot of health challenges. Leaving maybe their reality or their viewpoint is a little bit different, but I was just thinking, okay I just got to get him home now eating.
He had no abdomen, bradycardias surgeries. I thought, I got that and escape. By the first week, I started to [00:18:00] notice he would continuously have like congestion after eating. And I was like, are you aspirating? And that's exactly what he was doing. Okay. So we had to go back on a feeding tube and I felt Oh man.
Yeah. And then I was like, did I miss him? Did we rush him? Was I not paying attention? All the things. Wow. And it was so stressful because I was going back into residency to finish, cause I actually had, did I know at that point? That I had matched for fellowship, or I was doing some of the interviews, I'd actually So at this
Dr. Jill Baker: time, you were matching for residency?
No,
Dr. Jess Daigle: I was matching for fellowship. I had already, yeah, I had already, I was actually when I was on bed rest. I had actually done some interviews for fellowship on bedrest, like I was doing Skype. So I was interviewing. Yeah, I was interviewing. So I think I did find out like a little bit after that, but I had gotten into fellowship.
And but I was going to have to finish my training later, like I was four, four or five months off schedule. So they were like, the program was like, that's fine. We'll wait and things like that. [00:19:00] So I'm thinking. I just got a, that's where I talk about that compartmentalization. Okay, let me just put my preemie and his stuff over here and let me try to finish my residency, but it was impacting me because I had not recognized it as a traumatic experience because I was familiar.
With what would happen. So I, because I understood medically, I thought somehow that absorbed me of the pain of it, but that wasn't true like motion. Yeah, the emotions like I needed to deal with this and I was scared a lot because I had to leave him to other people to watch him with his feeding tube and teaching people how to use a pump.
And I got a 911 call a couple of times and just all kinds of stuff like leaving the floor trying to go and take care of him. It was making me late. Yeah. All right, since we round some time. And so that, all of that increased my awareness of whenever like a nurse, you like a mom is not visiting the baby in the NICU.
I now know like [00:20:00] we, there could be a whole host of things happening in her life at home that we haven't considered as opposed to, Oh, she just doesn't care about her baby. She might have three other kids, or, a lot of people are not really as supportive. Or her job doesn't understand. Yeah, and they like want her to get back to work.
Yeah, because people don't care about what they are not aware of a lot of times. And it's not to be mean, it's just, that's why I speak so much about tapping into that humanism, because if we wait for everybody to experience something so they understand us, we'll be waiting a long time. But we can tap into the feeling of disappointment or Not having something that we expect to happen.
Everybody has had that, whether it's with a pregnancy or a job or death of a loved one or parent or just whatever. And so I think if we all do a better job to tap more into that humanism and start being more curious about people, then it'll make us better at our human interactions and connections. And so it, I feel like I was a really good doctor, even as a resident.
Because I just [00:21:00] have always been a person that was very curious about people. And I think that helped me, but it added another layer to understand what emotionally these families are feeling when they have to leave their baby every day, when they're having to toggle between caring for them. These moms who nicked their postpartum, like that just occurred to me, like in the last year, it just has a c section. Your postpartum anger baby is in the picture. Yeah.
Dr. Jill Baker: You might have postpartum
Dr. Jess Daigle: depression. Yeah, and yeah, that exacerbates it. And then you're dealing with this guilt or I just wrote a post today like Nikki, mommy needs to forgive yourself. I love your post, by the way.
I think you need to forgive yourself. It is so inspirational. Thank you, but it's true. You need to forgive yourself. But not for what you think, but forgive yourself for thinking that you have some control. And yes, are there some instances where people do have situations that maybe have made them more likely?
I don't advocate you doing drugs or just things like that. But for most [00:22:00] majority of people, they really are trying to be as healthy as they know how to be or to be and or like I thought I was a pretty, I ran track. I don't do drugs. I didn't smoke and drank. That's the thing, right?
Dr. Jill Baker: So black come doing all of these things.
Yeah,
Dr. Jess Daigle: being healthy, physically didn't matter and still dying. Yeah, didn't matter education
Dr. Jill Baker: and our education and our income. Yeah, makes It makes us more likely to die and more likely to have babies that are
Dr. Jess Daigle: preterm. Yeah. And the interesting thing about that is that you would have a naysayer and be like see what can we do then?
Because they've done all the external things, in a lot of cases. But. There and I think that there will be some things that just we will maybe understand more through research and there probably needs to be more research about our physicality or things in our bodies probably is what I would imagine, especially when those [00:23:00] kinds of things are corrected for.
But when we look at like the infant mortality piece, because I actually did a lot yesterday talking about neonatal health equity on Instagram with a NICU nurse, We talked about looking at the CDC needs to do better with how they even break down when these time points of infant mortality happen.
And what are the causes, just like how we know now, with the Black maternal, we know those first 42, 50 some days, I remember that article came out that they was like, if you actually focus in the fourth trimester, you can capture a lot of people. We need that same information for the infants.
Where are these freemies really more at risk? We know there is risk just by them being premature, but what is happening in the home? Is it something in the home? Is it a lack of a follow up? We need those things teased out, so we can actually build actual measures to improve it, like key performance indicators and anything else.
Quality improvement. So those are just things that I have thought about. Just as I've seen some of the numbers and things,
Dr. Jill Baker: [00:24:00] right? And people who may say you can't change the fact that black women are educated and are, have careers and are, leaders in our professions.
And no, we shouldn't, we're not going to stop doing that. The issues for us are yeah. Exposures to discrimination and race. Yes.
Dr. Jess Daigle: Yes. Those things can change. That's true. It can be changed even in the NICU because I remember when the paper came out about racial disparities in the NICU, I remember being so floored.
Like, why? Like it's a baby and then, but then I'm like, you know what, if they didn't care about the mama who had this baby, then what do we expect? Having, being a child is not really that protective either actually, and so it really is going to be changing those things we
Dr. Jill Baker: mentioned.
Let me ask you about that. So with you being in the NICU for those five weeks and you being a doctor, a medical doctor,
Dr. Jess Daigle: Yeah. Yeah.
Dr. Jill Baker: And this is your [00:25:00] specialty. Yeah. One, at some point, with this being your job, your profession, did you ever feel, then why did this happen to me? Because this is what I do.
This
Dr. Jess Daigle: is. Yeah. I've taken on just thinking that maybe, and it's so funny because, you never like to think that the Lord is like making something happen in your life, but I do think things are allowed and I think that for me it has improved. I feel like it's added another layer to if I just would have gone into this field with not having had the experience because even when I talk to neonatology friends and they're like Yeah, but you have one.
So that puts you in a little different category of understanding people. When I sometimes trying to downplay it, I've had this to be like, No, but that makes you connect better with your patients. And I feel like when I tell my story to the parents [00:26:00] It does. I have had them tell me I they appreciated that I actually understood where they were coming from as opposed to I'm just telling them that because I was the doctor, and so in that regard, I think that it helped.
I did at first when it happened, especially when I had my miscarriage, I was like, man, I never really thought about the statistics. And it's very interesting because I like knew them, but you never think that something is possible for you and not that in an arrogant way, it's just obviously there's no way to live and be like, I can walk out of this house right now and somebody can hit me, with a car.
You don't want to live like that, but it's possible, it's just like people probably were in a plane or car crashes or things like that. And i, it just made it real for me in the sense of I do this work, but this is like real lot, like people are really dealing with these emotions.
And sometimes I get emotional and I think about it. Sometimes I cry for the moms that I know are out there. Like today, somebody right [00:27:00] now is having a baby prematurely that they did not expect to have. And I sit and I think about that because. I want to stay connected to that emotion of it and that reality.
So it'll keep me compelled to do what I'm doing. Because I think when you forget, I think it's why in the hospital, why there's such a disconnect because the C suite people are often not people who have done the work and it's all just business. And it's not like you got to come down to the level of people.
It's just like any business that forgets their customer. Why are you doing this? It's because this person had this need, right? And so we need to, yes, there's a business of medicine, but we really need to tap back into the connection and service part of what we're doing. It's going to make it better.
Oh, I love
Dr. Jill Baker: that. That's so in, in aligned with again, thinking about Something Shawnee said about, losing her daughter Shamani four years ago, and she says, that loss, I had to change [00:28:00] it into purpose. Yeah. And now that's my life.
Dr. Jess Daigle: Yeah, because what can you do and that's part of the reason why.
There's
Dr. Jill Baker: empowerment in that.
Dr. Jess Daigle: It is. Yeah. Because you cannot go back and change that. You can change. Your perspective. And I was going to do moving folks. Yes, I was listening. This guy talked about like the spectrum and I love it because he was like, on the left side, it's like pessimism. Then on the right side, it's like toxic positivity.
And then he was like, in the middle is realism. And he said, right to the right of that is optimism. And he said, that's where we should live. Like we're real about what has happened, but we have hope for the future. And I love that because I was like, talk to the positivity. Yeah. It's Oh, life is great and nothing's happened.
That doesn't help you because your brain is like, but no, for real though, some has happened. Or your body at least feels it, like that book, the body keeps the score. And we do ourselves a disservice by not acknowledging our experience. And we do that because we do that to ourselves. We do it to other [00:29:00] people.
We do it to the patients. We don't validate them because we go around brushing off our own experiences and biases. Yes. And biases. And we're not self aware. So we can't be aware of anyone else. So it's really all about we need to be as authentic. As we can and then recognize how important that is in our interactions with each other.
Dr. Jill Baker: Absolutely. Absolutely. So I wanted to ask. You still in your NICU experience. So how were you treated in the NICU
Dr. Jess Daigle: while you were there? I actually I had my baby at Grady in Atlanta. Yeah. We would get great at Hartown cause it's not the most like compared to somewhere North side where it's all pretty rooms and things like that, it wasn't like that, but the care I knew that I would get they do a really good job. I had already rotated the Nikki there. So I really thought my baby. Oh, so you already do. Okay. Yeah, but I still have moments where there was [00:30:00] one moment I had a nurse that my baby I had, it was the first time I could put his outfit on his clothes on and I had dressed him and he had pooped in it.
And I remember being so mad at her when I got to the unit because she took it off of him, but she didn't rinse it. And I'm like, why would you give me this onesie that you could have at least rinsed it to get that? I was so mad. I had to have a talk with her about that. So for the most part, I was present for rounds.
I did ask them to explain things in layman's terms because my husband's not in medicine. So that's the other piece that of awareness is like, who's in the room? What do they know? What can they understand? And what is it? Every time you have a conversation with the family, what do you want them to take away?
You need to be aware of that. Whenever I go to talk to a family, I have the goal of when we're done, they're going to know what I think, what I [00:31:00] believe, what I hope. And I'm going to know the same because that's the only, yeah, from there. Yeah. Like I tell him, so tell me your terms, what you think is going on with your baby.
Tell me. And then I'm okay with repeating it because you have to understand where people are in the process. The first day I'm talking to them, they just like, what has happened to me? Some of them are still dealing with pain from coming off drugs, all kinds of stuff. So I tell them that I said, I'm gonna tell you this.
Just so you can grasp it and whatever awareness you have now, but I know we're going to have the same conversation tomorrow. I'm okay with that. I tell them that. And so I just know that this is what's necessary and I'm willing to do it because it's what is needed. And I think sometimes we put too much Oh, it takes, it doesn't take that long.
If you already know what those people need to know.
Dr. Jill Baker: Yeah, it doesn't
Dr. Jess Daigle: long to have this conversation. It doesn't. It doesn't. By the time I'm done talking to the family, they're like shut up. We don't have any questions actually, because I already know. I already know. [00:32:00] You want to know when your baby going to come home.
You want to know what that looks like. I'm going to give you an overview. Most babies need to be off oxygen. A very few will go home on time. We want them to be growing. We want them to be able to maintain their body temperature on their own. We want them to be able to eat enough to grow, whether that's all by mouth or in some cases, some may need to go home with a feeding tube.
We will know as your baby grows, we're going to have these conversations along the way. You're going to know when we're reaching milestones. And then they get that little map. And so when they see the baby off oxygen, say, see, okay they've achieved phase one, I make sure to celebrate that with, Hey, your baby's off oxygen, let's celebrate that.
That's a celebration. Yeah. Yes. And and then I tell them up front, feeding is the longest thing to keep babies in the hospital outside of surgical needs, depending, but again, you've already, if you know what's going on, if you're educating them about the disease process going on in their baby.
Then they're going to understand why something's taking long and I've absorbed myself of the [00:33:00] need to make it better for them in the sense of where I'm being false about the expectations because sometimes we're trying to, Oh, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings. They, you can be nice and care and caring and still keep it like 100 percent in the street.
So be honest. You can you like me telling them that feeding is the longest time I'm giving you this perspective because I do this every day and this is the thing I'm even like, baby, do you not want to, even ask him, come on, baby, come on but I tell them that. But because they'll still be frustrated either way.
The whole process is frustrating. They would have met not even chosen to have a preterm infant. If we, if Yeah. Yeah. Somebody said, Hey, have this baby that will have no problems or have this nobody's going to be like, Oh, I'm going to choose that. No. So how do we help you and support you in this journey that has already been decided for you?
This is how we do it. We commit to educate, we commit to validate, we commit to understanding where you are. We [00:34:00] get curious about you and your home situation and say Hey, this is a resource that we can connect you to or whatever. That's what it takes. And we need to have. A process for that, which a lot of places are implementing families to the care, but I travel.
That's the other part of my thing that I do. I have my license and yeah, I have my license in 10 states. And so I have seen the range of differences in the equity piece of Mickey's right like so You know, in some places of a baby's having an issue, you just phone up speech therapy, but in a lot of these smaller hospitals, it may be nurses who are may or may not have a good understanding of feeding mechanics.
knowledge, difficulties, strategies, right? So you are at a disadvantage. Yeah. Of the staff. And what do they know? Not all nurses know everything. Not all nurses are proponents of breastfeeding. Not all nurses even know about breastfeeding. And so all of these things are micro inequities.
Yes. [00:35:00] Yes. Yes. And they have impact, right? They have impact.
Dr. Jill Baker: Hello, Maternal Health 911 listeners. If you are enjoying this episode, And if you happen to be going through infertility or, someone who might be and who needs support, I want to announce to all of you that I am offering fertility and infertility coaching services, and I have a very limited amount of spots, but for those of you who are interested.
Thank you. Please visit my website, www. drjoebaker. com, or you can email me at drjoebaker at gmail. com about your interest and we can figure out a time to book a consult call. Would [00:36:00] love to hear and help in any way that I can. But by traveling
Dr. Jess Daigle: that expanded my world because I was in one place.
And so I only knew that one system and now I'm like, Oh, but over here, they're able to do that. But why is this hospital place importance on that? But this one doesn't. And so it's just very interesting. It opened my eyes a lot.
Dr. Jill Baker: I want to, so in terms of supporting family, when it's time for them to go home, what is that process like?
And ultimately. What resources should that family have in order for the next baby to thrive?
Dr. Jess Daigle: Okay, first of all, I think that In the beginning, when a family is first admitted, there needs to be a needs assessment. I gave a talk at the NICU Hands to Hold conference and somebody was like, do you have a needs assessment?
I was [00:37:00] like, that's a challenge. I need to create one. And perpetuated throughout all those hospital systems in the U. S. That's a challenging step. If you want to create one
Dr. Jill Baker: together,
Dr. Jess Daigle: that's right up my alley. Hey, let's do it. Let's do it. But that really needs to be a systematic approach to identifying what social determinants of health could be impacting them.
And just like I said, with the pregnant mom, if you're waiting until this baby goes home, you're too late. It's this is why I tell families who are pregnant, don't wait until you have a baby to know a pediatrician. You can go and start talking to folks now. Hey. What are your hours? What if I have an emergency?
Or do you have office hours on the weekend? Do you have after hours? Do I have to go to urgent care all the time? Is there a nursing line? You can start understanding what's possible and available to you before you have to get to that situation. We need that same, when I'm at the hospital, I'm asking who is this?
I'm talking to the family, especially when it's like at least a week before, if we haven't already, sometimes most places they would have had social work to see them. [00:38:00] Okay. And even that can depend on locations on how in depth that is and what kind of resources are given out, right? Yeah, so like I think that it should be that should be something that's standardized to like in my talk I talked about we need to do more in the hospital to connect with community resources like Do you even know what's available for your families when they leave the hospital?
A lot of people don't. They're just blind, focus on, Oh, I'm just trying to keep this baby alive, but that's much more than the medical piece of it. It's their surroundings what they're going home to so really it's so if it's not a unit doing that, then that's why I've started to just put out there and try to be an advocate in this regard.
Talking with families about knowing what organizations and actually it's one of the things I'm getting my website officially built, but I actually want to have a page that's just resources. Where it can be categorized by location. If you're in this state, these are the places that you can call.
Yeah, [00:39:00] because people, I actually know I'm in a NICU moms group with over 30, 000 of them, and I asked people, what were some resources that helped you? And if you don't mind, put where you are, because. It's some of these things that like live hidden gems. You're like, why is this a secret? Everybody should be like, Oh, you,
Dr. Jill Baker: let me tell you to be able to get that information.
Dr. Jess Daigle: Yeah, exactly. And so that's one piece. And then connecting with the community pediatricians, which That can vary too because like when I was in training, they were just starting to change how much NICU exposure you had. And so it's not as much if I'm correct, I don't think it's as many rotations as used to be.
So I'm curious about the and I don't want to use the word competency. But in a way, it's the perfect word because that's a fair word. Yeah but even like the level of understanding that community pediatricians have with regard to taking care of a preemie when they go home because there's so many things about [00:40:00] feeding and growth that are changing and development coordination care, which is why some places have a NICU follow up clinic.
But not all communities have that. And it tends to be associated with the bigger hospital systems that are all like teaching places and things like that, but it's really those little community hospitals. It's those 34 to 37 weekers that are higher risk of being readmitted. That oftentimes people are like, Oh, they just had a little bit of this or a little bit of that.
But that kind of attitude is what I think is perpetuating the infant mortality rate. Because we're not teaching families how to identify when the kids are in trouble. And the distress signs. Yes. Yeah. But your kid, you gotta be a little bit more concerned if they start doing this because they already had a risk factor that was a little bit higher.
It's like why we're teaching families to have blood pressure cup at home for preeclampsia. Like you need to be checking your blood pressure. You don't may not tell that to everybody, but for the people, at risk, you're going to give a little bit more education. And so [00:41:00] it's really that we need to do better with.
How we're educating our families and we've come really good at checking boxes and medicine. I remember when I got the paperwork, like we're good at print stuff and say, all right, read this. Yes. That's not helping people, and yes. As a parent, we do need to have some responsibility with regard to our education around our kids.
But we do need to make sure that we've at least assessed. what level that education is at. And then if we know that this is not someone who may have a greater understanding, maybe they need more follow up, more checking in to see how things are going, in the aftermath. I love
Dr. Jill Baker: that. I love how you walked through that.
I think that's going to be so helpful for listeners. And when you get your website up, having those
Dr. Jess Daigle: sources. Yes, I'm committed. I'm going to go like to every state and I'm going to say what is available in this state. And then if it's national, [00:42:00] I may put it like what's local and then what's a national organization that it doesn't matter where you are, that'll help.
So it's okay I can happen to anywhere. Okay let me see what's specific to my state. While I'm also maybe talking with somebody who's national, like the hands to hold program, I didn't know anything about that. I learned that from being in that NICU mom group, and then there's like flow preemies and it's like once upon a preemie and all kinds of organizations that I wasn't made aware of Nope, I'm a good example.
I was not told that kind of stuff when I was in the NICU. So then it made me wonder, it's funny. Cause it's you can still have a bias towards you that may appear to be in a positive fashion. The assumption that just because I'm a doctor meant that I knew something that was not true. And yeah, I had to tell my OB that when I had miscarriage we had to have a heart to heart. I was like, Yes, I was a physician, but I was still a person that was grieving and I need to be treated as such, because I had to explain to my husband while we wasn't resuscitating the 20 weeker [00:43:00] when I feel like that should have been her role.
And but I love her. She's a good, she's a good doctor, but yeah, I was having to do a little bit more of that because that was one of the things that wasn't me. Clear for him, and so it just made me again another one of those Awareness thing and I'm very intentional about when the dads are there.
I talked to both of them I don't just look at the mom. I offered. Hey, you want to do some skin to skin, too? You can put that baby on your chest, but don't be surprised. They try to lick your nipples It's all part of the process. Just take it in stride No, I
Dr. Jill Baker: love that because my husband, my husband still says this But he just father's just you're just never as valued as the mothers are.
It's true. That's like a constant theme of conversation that we
Dr. Jess Daigle: have. Yeah. And again, it takes people being intentional, again, awareness, and then being [00:44:00] intentional. And then sometimes people make it such a big thing, but you could just decide to change like one thing. And that's what I said in my talk to him the whole like, I hope when people left, I said, Just the next time when you show up to work tomorrow, you're washing your hands to scrub in to go take care of family And you see this mom just get curious ask her something.
Maybe that you never You can it's a skill like anything else. I do think some people are more naturally empathetic But I do think it's a skill you can learn if you just say, you know what, I'm just going to make a point to learn one new thing about this mom today or have one positive thought towards her experience instead of judgment.
It'll become a habit, you'll start to realize that, hey, it becomes more and more common to you than the opposite.
Dr. Jill Baker: And another thing that, often say is, if you can do that and think if it was your mother, your sister, your partner, how would you want [00:45:00] someone to treat them or their
Dr. Jess Daigle: baby?
Yeah. It really does stay home with you because half of us, if not all of us, would get real irate if we, if some of the stuff that we sometimes would do if we're not being sent to that, was sent to us. We'd be like, Oh no, they didn't. And it's different things, but it's intentional.
And when I wrote a blog post about like encounters, I talked about different patient encounters I had, like even cultures, different cultures. Like I had this Indian family and I could sense some frustration because the dad was trying to help the mom, the nurse was trying and he just felt like he was all in the way and I was like, let's just.
Let's just ask. So I asked, let's say, Hey, what is it like in your country around breastfeeding? What is the dad's role? What are they typically doing? And so we talked about it and then I explained to him then our nurses are expected to do X, Y, Z because it's just a communication thing.
The parents don't know that we got stuff. We got to check off. Yeah, exactly. There are people, somebody helping you or not, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. [00:46:00] Everybody's moving from their own perspective. But if you just ask a question with curiosity and there's no judgment either way.
I just want to know when it helped. It actually improved that interaction. And he actually ended up bringing me some homemade. Indian food. It was so good. I love homemade. Me too. Me too. It was so good. It was so good. And I, and he was like, thank you so much, and so just that little gesture is just it's so many opportunities.
And I say, I said that in my blog, I was like, every time I walk into a patient's room, there's opportunity to be judging. There is. Oh. Yeah, it is. It is. But there's opportunity to be curious to like I wonder why they feel this way or thought that was, that was the best thing to do or, and I'll ask you, I'll be like, so why do you think it was okay to be smoking weed in this bathroom?
I don't be like, Hey, you can't do that, and and they'll laugh and they'll be like, come on. You got to take that outside, and just stuff like that. So I could have chosen to be very ugly towards them or something like [00:47:00] that, but that wasn't going to get the outcome that I needed.
And so it's just my approach. It has served me very well. And have I had disagreements with families? Yes. But I always come back and circle around. I remember this one mom I had, I was like, I don't think that we got off on the right foot. I feel the. Energy. And I said, I believe we both want the same thing for your baby.
Want your baby to do well. I want your baby to do well. So let's start from there and you tell me what you think looking well looks like, and I'll tell you what I think looking well looks like. And we can see if we'd be in the middle. And we actually ended up coming together on, but it was being willing to just acknowledge that.
I love somewhere I got missed. And that happens. Yeah, it happens. It could
Dr. Jill Baker: have been just that
Dr. Jess Daigle: day. Yeah. She just had a baby. So instead of choosing offense, choose curiosity. Instead of choosing judgment, choose curiosity. It's my message. It's going to be my text when I write it. Hey, tell me
Dr. Jill Baker: where it is.
All right. [00:48:00] And I'll be
Dr. Jess Daigle: in the audience. Okay. I won't. Say anything, but I'll do it,
Dr. Jill Baker: unless you need a volunteer. Okay. Okay.
Dr. Jess Daigle: Okay. But it's really, yes, but every, everything that I ever encountered, even in my own marriage, I'd be like, let me just get curious about why my husband might've said that.
Dr. Jill Baker: Why you might've thought that.
Oh, I love that. I'm going to take that from
Dr. Jess Daigle: you. Yeah. Even if I'm mad, even if I'm mad there's no, but you know what? I'm going to, I'm going to dial back and get, dial back and get curious. I love
Dr. Jill Baker: it. I love it. I'm going to take, I'm a, I'm going to take that from you. Yeah,
Dr. Jess Daigle: it's good. It's true though, right?
Because everybody has a reason why they're doing something now. Sometimes they may need to sit with themselves and dig deep, but maybe by you asking them questions. Yeah, by even by you asking a question that might make them go yeah, why did I respond like that?
Dr. Jill Baker: Right? Yeah, I love it.
I love it. So I want [00:49:00] to take some time to talk about your practice. Okay. And how that kind of came about and the timeframe how many patients, how did they find you? Okay.
Dr. Jess Daigle: So right now I only just really started building the idea in, I've been interested in something for a little while, but I've been primarily working as a hospitalist in the NICU, like starting in like 2016.
I actually. When I got to fellowship, I started late and then I wasn't really thriving there. I was separated from my son. My husband was mostly taking care of him. So it just ended up being a huge stressor more than anything. And it was such a hard decision, but I needed to leave. And I ended up getting a job working in a level two NICU, which I was like at least all the skills I got in that first year would actually set me up to.
Be able to do that job really well. And obviously I got better and better over time, but over like right around 2020 in the pandemic, maybe even before that, actually, I started to just sometimes be like, [00:50:00] Oh, what else is there? And I had, I struggled with that because my only life goal was to be a neonatologist and.
Since I had left fellowship early, then I was like, do I want to go back to fellowship after I get my kids settled and grown? And then I was like I don't know if I want to do that. Asking yourself is it about the title or about the work, all those kinds of questions you ask yourself and so I begin Thinking I would love to have some kind of a lot of it was patients will be like, do you have a practice?
And I'd be like no, not doing it. And my husband would be like, why not? I'm like, cause I don't want to have to try to see 60 people in a day. That's why. And then I started to just get curious about who said you had to see 60 people? What else might be possible, and I started thinking, I don't know what prompted me.
I feel like it's the same thing, like God, like the same thing with how I wanted to be a genetologist. I had no prior experience with that. Obviously I had no kids at 10, but but I knew it deep inside. And so I started researching like [00:51:00] home health for Mom's babies or like a practice at home and I came across Dr.
Dr. Patel. She's an Indian doctor in Colorado that was doing fourth trimester care, bringing the clinic to the house and I was like, oh people are doing that. So I like reached out to her Yeah, I reached out to her and then I actually joined a group because there's a group for trimester care docs on Facebook So then I started to just learn a little bit about what you do me, but I still was working in hospital I still hadn't committed.
Oh, we do we want to make 10 years in the future like oh, but what about this? What about that instead of just saying what do I need to know now, right? But I would still leave work crying and, I got curious about myself what was up with you? What's going on? And I studied myself. And I was like, I'm just going to just chronolog my day and I got to pay attention to when I'm happy, when I'm sad, when I'm mad, when I'm crying, like I did that. And I realized from that, that I love my most favorite part until [00:52:00] this day is still is talking with families. I love talking to my family.
This is the best thing. I love educating them, talking to them. I love seeing the light bulb going on. I love reassuring them, letting them know they can do this with the right help. So I was like, okay, I need to keep that piece. I don't like some of the hospital administration stuff. Like sometimes having to work all the way straight, like two weeks on, two weeks off anymore.
I was getting just tired of some of the, politics, so then, I know. Yeah. So I was like let's see what's possible. So academia is the
Dr. Jill Baker: same. Yeah.
Dr. Jess Daigle: Yeah. That's what people have told me. And so then I was like I still like going to delivery. So it's but I don't want to 100 percent not ever working.
Thank you. It just, I just don't want it to necessarily be the only thing. So it's how can I do a little bit of hope? Because I started to ask myself, what's possible? Because, sometimes we subscribe to. There's only one way to do things. Yes. Not really, nobody said that this was the way things had to be done.
And so then I just got into that community and began [00:53:00] building. And then at first I was focused on new moms and big moms. And I was always conflicted with that. Because I think I was just scared to like niche out to big people. I was like. I didn't go and finish my fellowship, even though I've been working in the NICU for seven, eight years.
I was like, and so that whole label part was kind keeping me captive, right? Oh, and I had some of my neonatal just friends would be like, girl, A, they was like, you know what you need to know, trust me. They was like, they was like, at least you care about what happens when they leave the hospital.
They was like, most of us are just like, once they leave here, there's somebody else's. job. It's like now you have a dual perspective. I know what's happening when you're in there and I know what's happening when you're out of there. And I just recently this year decided that I wanted to really focus on like the NICU families, somebody's interested and they're like, oh, hey, but I really like the service.
I wouldn't turn them away, but I've been more focused on NICU and I've been having a lot of NICU twin families, which is interesting. I'm [00:54:00] like, okay maybe that's something. So that part is just starting to pick up cause I hadn't really. Put a lot of focus on like marketing and things like that.
Like I told you, I was like attending some webinar by school or just trying to learn a little bit more of the business part of it. I get a lot of like consultations, like people want to understand what's happening with the kids in the Q. But I'm now starting to get more of interest from families.
And what I found is I was putting so much focus on like the social media, but really everybody that I've worked with has come from word of mouth. So I was like, I need to get out. Word of mouth is, it is it. Yeah, so that's one of my goals and metrics for January 2024 is to really hit the ground here in Atlanta and just go and introduce myself to all the OBs, MFMs, people that are going to be seeing these families who are at risk of having NICU babies.
And so they know that there's somebody that's specifically trying to cater to
Dr. Jill Baker: them. You and I sound like we just have so much in common. Yeah. Because I went through the same [00:55:00] thing. Pandemic. I think pandemic. What's a changing point for a lot of people? I think even at our, like our age.
Work so hard to get yeah, okay. Yeah, and then you have kids,
Dr. Jess Daigle: yeah
Dr. Jill Baker: Why I'm not happy
Dr. Jess Daigle: Yeah, I'm not being
Dr. Jill Baker: happy with work. And then, and I, me, I made the decision to not be a faculty, not teach, not, and I made it to associate professor. And I said, I don't, I can't do
Dr. Jess Daigle: this anymore.
I can't. And that was so interesting because then you realize that a lot of what we were taught, even about even achieving in medicine. Was all based on still some need to validate in a way, right? Like it didn't almost didn't come from a, the right place, even as we cared about the people. So I don't want it.
I don't want it. Yeah. Cause
Dr. Jill Baker: you I love teaching. Yeah. So like [00:56:00] you, working with your families and your patients. And I'm an excellent teacher. Yeah. And I'm not just saying that. Anybody who's had me, they know. Yeah. My evaluations, my former students. Yeah. So it wasn't that. I was just like everything else.
Exactly. No. Being a black woman. Yeah. Design
Dr. Jess Daigle: is designed to weed you
Dr. Jill Baker: out. So that was, my husband was like, you need to decide then what. Okay. You don't want to do this anymore. Then what is it that you want to do and start figuring
Dr. Jess Daigle: that out? Yeah. Yeah. My husband was very encouraged. He's always thought I should have done my own thing.
And he's he used to equate work in the hospital, which I love traveling. So I'm like, I'm keeping that piece. I just decided to scale. I've decided to scale down to max seven to 10 days a month. And that's my 2024. I'm not doing more than that. Unless somebody is just like in a dire emergency, like somebody was scheduled and they like had to go have immediate surgery or something like that.
But [00:57:00] other than that, I have, I'm committed because I wanted my time with my kids. I was like, what was my idea? Like I had a I had joined the business school program actually. And so one of the coaches in there, Dr. Willie Gray, she was very instrumental talking with me. And she was like what? What do you envision?
What does your ideal day look like? And I had never asked myself that question, but it's a powerful question. It's a powerful. I was like, straight up, let me just, if everything is going exactly like I want, I'm waking up, taking my kids to school, because I love that part. I love taking them to school.
I don't have to do it all the time, but I want to be a majority of the time. Yeah. And then I like picking them up. I wanna be able to work in between that timeframe with Helping Mamas. I love, I found out, I love helping Moms breastfeed, so I'm gonna do the ICI love that. I love, I actually would do that in the hospital as a job.
I just come help them breastfeed. But I love that. So I was like, I wanna be able to do some of that. I wanna be able to do some of the coaching. So I was like, what are the [00:58:00] pieces? of my job that I enjoyed. How can I cultivate that into a life? That's why I was still working in the NICU. I took a weekend here and there, took a couple of tubes.
Cause you know, even when I was working two weeks on and off, I still wasn't there all the time. And I had to make myself realize that you're not like there all the time anyway, even now. So it's not like you're shortchanging the experience just cause you shortening how much you do it. You're still, when you're there, you're engaged, you're dedicated, you're getting the work done, so that was the answer for me. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to sit out to build these cohesive parts, these businesses that will work together to impact, make your families. So that's what
Dr. Jill Baker: I'm going to do. I love it. And then that's, with me getting into the infantility and fertility and recreational health world and from my own experience, disability experience, and then just getting myself more immersed in this work and then When I decided, okay, my husband's what do you really want to [00:59:00] do?
I was like, I want to coach, I want to coach families going through infertility and help them in their post pregnancy. So I'm getting my coach, coaching certification the next year in health and wellness promotion. And I'm going to start coaching, just start a little bit.
Dr. Jess Daigle: Yeah. Next year. Yeah. Yeah. Good.
That's so good. And it's so important. And I remember when I was first, when I first thought I wanted to do. Coaching too. I was just man, it's like a bad, it seems like a lot of people, everybody want to do the same thing is this woo, but just being in programs and even self coaching myself now, even now that I started working with moms and stuff, I realized how powerful it is.
And I just started learning a little bit more about it and realize what it is and how powerful it can be in your life. Like asking yourself questions, tapping [01:00:00] into your brain, your emotions, it's all important. So important. I
Dr. Jill Baker: was It's similar and a lot of people have, I think, have the same beliefs about coaching
Dr. Jess Daigle: and because it's just like anything else is like doctors like are there doctors out there that's probably not doing the best thing?
Yes. Yes. Exactly. Every profession there, there can be the people that are doing it for good reasons and right. They're not doing it. Don't have to. There's teachers, doctors, people, anybody, anywhere that there's people, there could be people doing it. Good with things or bad with things, and that's what people have to realize.
Dr. Jill Baker: Exactly. But I feel also like coaching, those conversations are so impactful. They
Dr. Jess Daigle: are. In real time. They are. You can go in and shift someone's belief about something, their behavior. Attitude and move them in different places and it's wonderful.
Dr. Jill Baker: I love it. Like
Dr. Jess Daigle: it, it feeds my soul.
Me too. Me too.
Dr. Jill Baker: Where I felt like my academic life didn't [01:01:00] Yeah. Wasn't doing that anymore.
Dr. Jess Daigle: Yeah. I still like educating families and things like that and you know that, so that's why having a practice still made sense for me, but just tailoring it to helping people that I feel are a disadvantaged in a sense because.
That is, it is a struggle having a new baby for me, it's not everybody. Even if the baby has done relatively well, just like how my son did, there's still the emotional impact of it and helping families and emotional rollercoaster. It is,
Dr. Jill Baker: it really is. And there's so many different factors that affect it.
Dr. Jess Daigle: Yes. That's what I've said in my talk, like families have life inside and out. So they need support in and out of. Absolutely.
Dr. Jill Baker: Okay. So before you leave this first time on maternal health 911 so any, BIPOC [01:02:00] women listening pregnant or planning to get pregnant. Yeah. But what would be your guidance right now with them to minimize.
their risk for a potential premature birth. I
Dr. Jess Daigle: think that if you're listening and you're not yet pregnant or trying to get pregnant, do some really good preconception counseling with an OB that you trust who is focused on educating you and really is looking at who you are and what will optimize your health.
If you're already pregnant, you still can do that. You can still see where you are currently right now. Is that doctor? Pay attention to you because like I said, it's like the one of the family who signed up now, she is having twins and she felt like her OB was almost like prejudging her in some instances, and I was like, you know what, you always have your have the right to change.
And I know sometimes it can be [01:03:00] complicated. Because people don't want to rock the boat or you. But you really have to believe in your worth and your power of self advocacy. And that's one of the things that I, and you don't have to be rude about it. You could just be very clear. This is what I expect.
This is what I hope is what I want. And we have access to so much stuff now. To tell someone not to go on the internet, it's I don't even have those conversations no more. This is what I tell my patients. If you're going to go look it up, let's have a discussion about it. At least so yeah go read and then come and be like I read this on the internet and then we could say I could say why that is true in that person's case or maybe why it's not true for you or why I don't agree with that or you know that I don't mind having Healthy discussion, cause I'm learning a lot of stuff from patients going and looking stuff up.
I'm like, I didn't even know that was a thing. I didn't know nothing about that baby product. Let me go see what the AP has to say about that. I don't get mad. I don't make stuff up. I just be like, I guess I know [01:04:00] about that. Or actually let me phone a friend. Cause that's, I know someone who does do deal with that.
Let me see what their thoughts are about it, but really believe first, believe in your right to advocate for yourself and to be educated in the things that concern you. And your body, that's number one. Number two then seek out providers and physicians. And it's funny because some physicians don't like to be called providers, but seek out physicians and other providers or however you want to call it.
And with the intention of understanding that do your research, word of mouth too, like people talk. They got all these Facebook groups and here they'll tell you like, oh yeah, I love this doctor. They listen to me. I don't know what I'm going to hear the snack, just like everything else what restaurant I had to go to because of these things, do the same thing with your health care, be just intentional where you won't
Dr. Jill Baker: go buy a car.
Dr. Jess Daigle: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, whatever. Yeah you're not gonna go get a massage wherever. But like just be that intentional about how can I ensure my best experience and [01:05:00] it is by you all first making a commitment to your own health and being and then in line with that, choosing someone who has the same goals that you do and the same commitment.
That's the key. And then other than that extends into even like we talked about the pediatrician, like I am a pediatrician who also. Okay. Do we all have this? I tell people all the time. I changed my pediatrician. She worked until she did. And then I was like, all right it's time to go somewhere else.
We were not seeing eye to eye with nothing. I didn't have to, you just have to be personal. Yeah. I just, I was like, I need to make this change and I have the power to do I didn't make it complicated. I came across a person who was asking something about it. One of my babies I just love. His demeanor, his thoroughness, and then patients would talk about him.
They'd be like, oh, y'all look, Dr. Jessica. Okay I'm gonna go over there too. So I changed the name to Dr.
Dr. Jill Baker: Jess.
Dr. Jess Daigle: And then, I have to put up to the streets. [01:06:00] Hey, the patients keep it real, though. They be cutting up, they be cutting up. But see, they love that. And see that's why I always have good experiences.
Yeah, my patients love it. We, I cut up with my families and they say, That's the ones who are like, sure. You don't want to start seeing five to six or seven year olds. And I'm like, I love my little babies, but if you need some guidance, I'll sure point you in the right direction. I definitely don't want you to be struggling, but, and then, that's why I built my thing.
So I could. Be that extra so the families who signed up with me They still keep a primary pediatrician since I'm not seeing them till the age 18 So they do still need to have a primary home, but I tell my I told them that I'm like a specialist I'm like, you still have your term as a doctor, but you might have your cardiologist That's help with more manage more things of the heart That's the way that I build my practice more of the specialty for the families and then you know, I love that Yeah.
Do a little bit more of the education teaching them more on the advocacy, how you might want to talk to [01:07:00] your pediatrician if you feel that they are not moving in a certain way or why they're not recommending a certain thing, then I'm teaching you like, okay, maybe you need to share this, or maybe you need to say this instead, because sometimes patients are just like, they just think people are just going to get it.
And for me working in medicine a long time, again, not every doctor is the same or has the same perspective. And. And so it's not, no, not, it's not a, it's not a anything against them. It's if you were a breastfeeding mom, who's a doctor, you're going to approach that mom who has a breastfeeding issue.
If you have it, you're going to be like, bruh, they got a formula. And why you don't just give your babies a formula. And that's not mean either, but it's true. That's probably like
Dr. Jill Baker: you're the one, the woman maybe who wants to talk to you about twins and. Being pregnant with twins is very different.
And even when I, was seeing my OBGYN and going through my practice at HUP and it wasn't really feeding [01:08:00] practice, you're trying to give me feedback on what to do while I'm pregnant with twins. I said, have you ever been pregnant before? Yeah. I said, do you know I'm hungry all the time? You're going to tell me to slow down eating?
Sorry. Not gonna happen.
Dr. Jess Daigle: I love you, but no. Yeah. And see, I haven't been in, I have not been pregnant with twins, but I talk to my family. I'm willing to learn from other people about the experience and, or I send them resources and say, Hey, I found this really great resource that talks about it so they can validate your experience.
So I'm okay. Again, that's part of, I don't necessarily have to have had the experience because if we wait on everybody to have every experience. You'll be waiting a long time. But you can be sensitive to the fact that they need more support in this area. Who can I connect them with? Who can I refer them to?
Instead of just being like, that ain't my thing. That's not helping them. Find somebody who it is their thing. Exactly. Yeah. So that's what I do with my families and actually have someone that wants, that's interested and we're going to be talking [01:09:00] tomorrow. And so I'm excited about where it can go.
I've just tried to take the pressure off of. Trying to make it be so much so soon and just see, what can I do to increase awareness, paying attention to things and adding value where it's needed. I love it.
Dr. Jill Baker: I love it. So last question before you go. This is my last question for all the guests. Is there anything you want to share the listeners about what we can be hopeful about regarding prenatal and neonatal care?
Dr. Jess Daigle: I think, Oh yeah, I think we can be hopeful that people are paying attention. And like I said before, that the conversation is continuing and people like me and you and other folks are out here sounding the alarm repeatedly. And one of my most recent posts, but okay. So we already know why [01:10:00] we have these numbers.
We don't need more research. We need more action. We need hospitals. We need hospitals to say this is what I'm committed to doing in my own hospital to make change because that is one of the things I don't see. I don't see that out loud. I don't see the C suite people commenting on these posts. What are these, what are insurance companies doing or not doing?
Like we really need to get it to that place. And I'm even trying to figure out, again I'm baffled because I just feel like, because it's a human beings. People should feel compelled to help and want to change, but obviously that's not been enough. And so I'm still, if anybody has any ideas how we can get hospitals on board and insurance company people on board that's where we need to change.
We need that, that change there. And it's probably going to come through policy and really having people on the ground. That are in [01:11:00] conversations with let's see sleep leaders and insurance people that's putting a demand because I said this yesterday and to wrap up, I said we measure every other metric.
You can't tell me a hospital that's not paying attention to their c section rates and this and then this and that they have to what. So who's making them pay attention to that is the same people and need to make them pay attention to their neonatal mortality rates. Inside the hospital. Okay. So what we need to that needs to be part of the monthly meetings to how many babies was preterm in the unit this week or month.
How many passed away? Was there a being connecting them just like we do morbidity and mortality? For the ob side. We need to do that for the babies too. I love
Dr. Jill Baker: that. I love that. Yeah. It
Dr. Jess Daigle: needs to be part of the metrics,
Dr. Jill Baker: right? And then you have, then we have to talk about it. Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr. Jess Daigle: So I tagged in my Instagram thing [01:12:00] yesterday. I did tag the CDC, the March of D initiative do to help. I'm like, maybe they'll watch somebody.
Dr. Jill Baker: Somebody is there. Don't you worry, you don't get those wheels turning. Bringing the alarm out. That's what we need. Yes. Thank you, Dr. Jess so much for being on this show for the first time. And I hope that this will be the first time of many. Can you let the listeners know they can find you and connect with you.
Dr. Jess Daigle: Yeah, so I'm on Facebook as my name, Jess Daigle, but just that by itself. And then on Instagram under at mom and me underscore MD. So M O M A N D M E underscore M D. And so they just search my name, Jess Daigle, it comes up just on Google. I'm also on LinkedIn as well. Those are the three platforms where I'm often found talking [01:13:00] about ways to support NICU families.
And I have a lot of educational stuff on TikTok that, that seems to have a lot of views. .
Dr. Jill Baker: Ooh. Alright. Alright. Yeah. And we'll put all of your social media on Okay. On the show notes for everybody too. Thank you sister so much. Thank you. The show to that.
Dr. Jess Daigle: I appreciate our conversation. It's always good. And it's these continued conversations that are.
What's going to make the difference.
Dr. Jill Baker: Thank you for listening to this episode of maternal health 911. Please follow the show on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter. Feel free to DM me with your questions and thoughts, or to share your infertility, fertility, and maternal health story. For more information on this podcast and your hosts, visit www.
drjoebaker. com. Listening to the show on Apple podcast, please rate and review it. It really helps the show and the
Dr. Jess Daigle: feedback is [01:14:00] welcome.
In this episode, we delve into the often overlooked and critical issue of perinatal and neonatal birth inequities, shining a spotlight on the experiences of families who navigate the challenging journey of having preemie babies. A maternal health 911 emergency is declared as we unveil the startling statistic that 1 in 10 babies (10.5% of live births) is born preterm in the United States. However, the disparities are even more glaring when we examine the rates by ethnicity, with black infants facing the highest risk at 14.2%, followed by American Indian/Alaska Natives at 11.6%.
To guide us through this complex landscape, we are joined by the brilliant and compassionate Dr. Jess Daigle, a gamechanger in the field of maternal health. Dr. Daigle brings her expertise to the table as we explore the underlying reasons behind these disparities, unpacking why certain communities are disproportionately affected. Together, we strive to uncover tangible solutions and shed light on what can be done to address this critical issue.
Join us for a conversation that goes beyond statistics, as we aim to raise awareness, foster understanding, and ignite actionable change in the realm of perinatal and neonatal care. It's time to empower families, support mothers, and champion the well-being of our tiniest fighters.
Guest Bio:
Dr. Jessica Daigle “Dr. Jess” is a board-certified pediatrician, neonatal/pediatric hospitalist, and Founder/CEO of Mom & Me MD. She is the proud mother of 2 kids both born prematurely, with her son born at 31 weeks and staying in the NICU for ~5 weeks.
She has a concierge medical practice in Atlanta,GA that provides local in-home/virtual care services to newborns (with focus on NICU babies) along with education and support for their mothers/families to make the transition home from the NICU easier and less overwhelming. She also offers life coaching for NICU moms to help them balance life after the NICU and be a confident mother.
Her passion lies in championing the health and wellbeing of postpartum NICU mothers and their infants and teaching moms to be empowered advocates. Her overarching aspiration involves consulting with healthcare institutions to cultivate nurturing NICU environments and building her businesses which guide and support NICU families on their unique journeys.
She has been featured on many podcasts including Pregnancy Pearls with Dr. Plenty and The Birth Trauma Mama Podcast, and is a co-author with 46 other women physicians in “Made for More: Physician Entrepreneurs Practicing Medicine and Living Life on Their Own Terms.”
She lives in South Atlanta with her husband and two kids.
Follow her on Instagram @momandme_md.
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessdaiglemd/
Learn more about Dr. Jill here
Have a story to share? Send us an email at maternalheatlth911@gmail.com
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https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-jillian-baker-61543222/
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